Alien intelligence

[SP1986]

I think its possible we could have potentially, alien life on this planet, without knowing it (only microbial though). There are microbes that can survive thousands of degrees so there is no reason why they arent protected coming through the atmosphere. To determine the chances of other life occurring, a few things stand in the way;

The Earth hasnt always had life - for the forst 1-2 billion years it was cooling down then there was life. However what if humans had been created a billion years ago - then we could have been supremely intelligent had we survived until this point - in theory assuming there is life in the universe elsewhere then a planet with no disturbing event such as meteors wiping out life etc, there could be some pretty intelligent lifeforms out there.

Insects for example are probably some of the oldest life forms on Earth and some insects are very intelligent for their comparable size and their intelligence has allowed them to survive for millions of years.

[A.J]

Thought I'd bump this thread...

Its been a long time since these points had been raised, and thought they deserve a fresh round of input...

In the past year, remarkable discoveries have been made....the prospect of life bearing subterranean oceans within our own solar system (Europa, Tethys, and Titan)...The discovery of Exo-Solar systems bearing similarity in composition and age to our own, our own tentative steps into particle physics, which in time, might open new doors and new frontiers to the very nature of our universe...These points and many more have opened new debates on the prospect of extra-terrestrial life......One thing that has really opened my eyes into the realms of potential alien life has been in the projected life-span of the universe...In a nutshell, the universe is still in its very infancy, in cosmological terms it has just been born......For example, star formation ('Stelliforous period') will continue for at least 10 to the power of 14 years, thats 100,000,000,000,000 years, and that in its self is just a few 'moments' in the universe's '24 hour clock' so to speak...So, a so called 'random rare event' such as the creation of different life forms, within the universe's life span, must be a truly astronomical number!

[weatherobsuk]

Insects for example are probably some of the oldest life forms on Earth and some insects are very intelligent for their comparable size and their intelligence has allowed them to survive for millions of years.

Insects to my knowledge dont build planes or extract iron ore or use computers, I'd be willing to bet that theres aquatic/insectoid life outside our solar system but they dont have the intelligence or physical structure to create anything comparable to humans. Lets face it humans are pretty stupid aswell, we've only gone to the moon and back a few times whereas microbacterial life living on comets have circled the universe since the beginning of time (does that make them smarter than us?.)

[Cloudsylph]

Hi!

Such interesting posts in this thread. May I suggest a couple of sites that will provide lots of food for thought. Divine Cosmos is the first one and The Law of One is the second.

Regards.

Carol

[Methuselah]

I would be very saddened to ever find out that the immensity of space harbours nothing intelligent other than us...What a waste of a Universe that would be IMO!?

[VillagePlank]

A (very) simple premise is, of course, that we do not know what life is? How do you define it?

There are all sorts of wonderfully opaque and intellectual ideas surrounding this definition, but, I'm afraid, it's scientific gooble-de-geek- over-rationalisation, and quite frankly rubbish.

Whilst NASA defines it, and I paraphrase, any organic entity capable of undergoing Darwinian evolution, this, clearly, begs the question why a four year old child can point to what is alive and what isn't. A four year old child simply doesn't understand the minutaie of detail that goes into selection, crossover, and mutation of haploid (or indeed diploid) reproduction.

There are other, equally nonsensical, definitions, too. There's one regarding, and I don't recall exactly what it is that was taught at schools, regarding Movement, Excretion, Reproduction and a few other traits that combine to define life. Onve again the absurd product of an intellectual failing to grasp the simple notion of the 'four year old child can tell what life is, but he couldn't understand the various parameters of your definition'

Simply, then, and the defintion, I would most subscribe too - is anything that, on it's own accord, show directed movement in its environment. That's why the four year knows that a rock is not alive, and knows that a blade of grass, so small, and weak, can stand tall against the enormity of that force that keeps the childs feet on the ground. And under this definition, you only need to watch - and it is also true, that we cannot make things that move in a directed fashion against their environment of their own volition. There is no theory of the creation of life (Stanley Miller's famous experiment is probably the closest we've ever come)

So, if you think there is extra-terrrestial life out there - how would you define it, and how would you recognise it?

Edited December 7, 2008 by VillagePlank

[Methuselah]

Good point, VP. Maybe we should ask a four-year-old? And in this world of over-intellectualization, I am not being entirely facetious!

[weatherobsuk]

Mybe theres a limit to species intelligence due to the fact that finding out the truth would be too much to handle and effectively kill off an entire race. Any other animal on Earth doesnt believe in divine beings except for humans, because its our way of coping with mortality and the reality around us. But what if you suddenly realise from supreme intelligence and technology that your existance in life is practically worthless and that maybe there is no reality or something far-out like that. Perhaps nature intended intelligence to be limited. I mean afterall we have the "circle" of life, the water cycle, gravity etc, all of which are dictated by physical aspects of nature, so why not brain intelligence capacity.

[BARRY]

This reminds me of a "plaque" that was sent up in a spacecraft that was going to our moon or Mars or somewhere and the "picture" on the plaque was of a naked man and a naked woman and there was other stuff regarding Earth life including things that were "universal" to life on Earth (these things shown by mathematical means).

It was said that if there were life forms elsewhere, then they would recognise these "universal" life requirement signs. But my immediate thought was that this was somewhat blinkered insofar as there could be lifeforms on other planets which are so far removed from any lifeforms on Earth as to be unrecognisible as such (to us) and which are ideally suited to their particular planet and conditions.........conditions which would not support "Earthlings".

I'm wittering, but I hope my meaning comes across!

The voyager spacecraft 1 and 2 were launched on aug 20 and sept 5 1977 and are still sending data back to earth,voyager 1 is 108.334 AU and 2 is 87.476 AU away from earth

1 AU = 93 millions, try this LINK

[Nick L]

Is there intelligent life out there? IMO almost certainly.

Will we ever find it? Most probably not.

[VillagePlank]

Is there intelligent life out there? IMO almost certainly.

Will we ever find it? Most probably not.

What is 'intelligence' ? and what is 'life ?

[BARRY]

What is 'intelligence' ? and what is 'life ?

you could ask a sheep

[Methuselah]

But what if you suddenly realise from supreme intelligence and technology that your existance in life is practically worthless...

Actually, that's pretty much how I see things to start with...But as an atheist, no doubt I'm missing something.

[Just Before Dawn]

What is 'intelligence' ? and what is 'life ?

Well indeed, however - to defend NASA for a moment, if one is seeking something in a vast area, how does one know if one has found it unless one attempts to define it? The definition can (and in this case will) change, probable an incalcuable number of times, but each journey starts with a single step, or in this case assumption and those then fall by the wayside as the search parameters are refined. To use the purgorative terms used in your first post I feel is a little unfair on people who, by their own admission are working in an area where constant expansion of our knowledge makes definitons of this kind an extraordinarily difficult challenge.

[VillagePlank]

To use the purgorative [sic: pejorative] terms used in your first post I feel is a little unfair on people who, by their own admission are working in an area where constant expansion of our knowledge makes definitons of this kind an extraordinarily difficult challenge.

I don't think it is. Where such definitions are given out, they are normally given out as a definitive, and not as a work-in-progress. But you are quite correct in that definitions of this nature are enormously difficult, and pose one of the most important challenges to humankind.

Edited December 7, 2008 by VillagePlank

[weatherobsuk]

Looking at the TV mag today, tonights edition of "The sky at night" on BBC1 is delving into the possibly of life on other planets, it would be worth staying up for to see what the scientific opinions are.