Environmental agenda is slipping off the radar screen

[Stratos Ferric]

...The fact is that, so far as climate science is concerned, CO2 leads and lags, depending on the situation, but this definition seems decidedly ham-fisted to me and it needs clearing up.

This is one issue I will start up a specific thread for, once I have gathered my relevant bits and pieces.

:wacko:

CB

It may seem ham fisted, but it might also be a fact. Carbon is locked into the planet, it is THE essence of organic life. In certain conditions it can be released: mankind has found what, for a while, seemed like a pretty ingenious way. Nature can pull the same stunt: volcanos, forest fires, background warming of oceans leading to increased dissolving of limestone etc. Everything that is now locked carbon fuel was once green matter above ground, and, presumably, airborne CO2 before that. I'm aware of no research that says over geological time periods the amount of free carbon has to stay a constant (in the way that, say, water pretty well must), in which case it's entirely plausible that it has fluxed in the past. What is different at present is that the release of locked carbon is not occurring in some slow natural sequence, man is inadvertently acting as an accelerating catalyst and nature's equilibrium is being destabilised.

Most systems are dynamic around a mean, however imperceptible that dynamism may be; but introduce a bias and pretty much any system without a built in dampening mechanism will re-equilibrate: nature is full of them.

[Gray-Wolf]

Here's a little bit more of the "slipping off the radar screens" stuff!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...71001102343.htm

[Stratos Ferric]

At the cinema tonight, albeit a local independent, there were more adverts for climate change than there were for anything else. One from Ben & Jerry and theior climate university (remarkable for a part of corporate US to be flag waving in this way) and one advertising for cycle to work, though under the banner of saving the planet.

There was no huge propaganda; just simple, lucid presentation. Rather compelling, but then they're preaching to the converted here so perhaps I'm not the most dispassionate judge.

[weather eater]

Not sure where to put this but here looks as good as any. BBC news article re Al Gores environmental film.

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm still not so sure why Darkman ever started this thread! I can't believe public perception is so different across the water, in fact I don't believe public perception is so different across the water.

Does that mean Darkman, of all people, just wanted to cause bother?

EDIT: Here's some more 'invisible' stuff on our efforts to trash the planet (and ourselves)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...71010131201.htm

Edited October 12, 2007 by Gray-Wolf

[Stratos Ferric]

And this morning's news is that Al Gore has been jointly awarded a Nobel Prize together with, I think, the IPCC's climate change team.

[laserguy]

And this morning's news is that Al Gore has been jointly awarded a Nobel Prize together with, I think, the IPCC's climate change team.

So you're not feeling at all well and go along to see the doctor. Many tests and investigations ensue and eventually the doctor says you've been eating too much of this,smoking too much of that etc,and over the years this is how you've ended up. Give that man an award for his diagnostic excellence.

Similarly,many thousands of climate scientists have reached pretty much the same conclusion WRT climate change,with Big Al as their mouthpiece. Having reached the diagnosis they can all go home now and put their feet up. Difference is,the physician will probably draw up a plan of action and figure out how to repair some of the damage caused by years of abuse. Al Gore and his merry team of pranksters sit back and say they were right all along. End of. I'm fed up to the back teeth of being constantly reminded(?) of the error of our ways but nothing actually being done to change that. I just know you're going to subtly infer that I don't know what I'm talking about Stratos,(please don't go there,it's boring and doesn't belong here)but if politicians want to save the world by cutting CO2 emissions why don't they DO IT? I'll just sit back and watch how the global economy collapses and we all end up in a third world state. Whether one accepts the diagnosis or not is irrelevant,the fact is CO2 emissions will only start to fall when oil production does. And that day can't be far away now,(news item today said oil prices at record high,reserves much lower than forecast,demand increasingly difficult to meet etc ).

When that day comes,we'll embark on an era which will start to shed some light on the truth of CO2 and climate change.But by then it'll be too late,we'll have smoked all the fags and got the terminal cancer. We'll have much,much more pressing concerns than shifting weather patterns. That's why I think the environmental agenda (with particular regard to CO2 ) is slipping off the radar. Is there really any folk sat at home thinking "hmm,if I turn off the telly,buy some low wattage bulbs,share the car to work etc,I can make some difference to the world?" I've maintained all along,and will always do so,that politicians must make a stance and rigidly impose whatever measures they deem necessary to achieve their aims instead of leaving it up to the 'people'.

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm sorry Laserguy but you are obviously very young. I was brought up on the Sunday afternoon documentaries that we could get back in the late 60's early 70's and the Jacques Cousteau adventures etc. The only other outlets I recall was 'Horizon' and even then we were being warned both about the impact we were having on the planet and the steps we, as a planet, needed to take to rectify the situation. Poor old Jacques always finished his marvellous offerings with a " and all this will be lost if we don't act now...." we didn't act. The State of the planet was queered with 'Oil Monies' for 20yrs always demanding 100% proof before they'd accept culpability and even today they seek to 'dodge the bullet' by claiming to be world leaders in green energy research.

The answers to our problems had been there for nigh on 40yrs and nobody but nobody cared. Nothing but piecemeal offerings and hot air ensued and now it's too late you give us "I'm sick of".

My last song as a plea to change our ways was last performed in 1985 ('Listen to me') when I gave up caring (only so much a young man can stand when he's being held up as a doomsayer or glum chum)

Ran into a couple I used to know who asked if I was still performing it as they thought it pertinent today!!! Too late I replied, 22yrs too late!

If you don't recall any of this ask you old dears what they did about things through the 80's (and they'll say "we left it for you")

[laserguy]

Gray-Wolf,I'm 42 and I can remember stuff from my very early days about how we were all doomed from some environmental catastrophe or another ( the main 'hot potato' at the time was an iminnent ice age!). That and every other never came to pass. The closing of stable doors and bolting horse was the real point of my post,though. BTW,as an artist were you known under another name?? I'm intrigued! I bet you're familiar with Jethro Tull's 'Wond'ring Again'. If ever there was a song that really nailed the point of attitudes to the Earth,that's the one. Makes even a hardened cynic like me pause and reflect for a while and rue the human condition. Ah well,there y'go. Music review over! Politicians should use it as their climate change anthem, like Labour used the song 'Things can only get better' in their election campaign! It'd be more effective,for sure.

[Gray-Wolf]

Gray-Wolf,I'm 42 and I can remember stuff from my very early days about how we were all doomed from some environmental catastrophe or another ( the main 'hot potato' at the time was an iminnent ice age!). That and every other never came to pass. The closing of stable doors and bolting horse was the real point of my post,though. BTW,as an artist were you known under another name?? I'm intrigued! I bet you're familiar with Jethro Tull's 'Wond'ring Again'. If ever there was a song that really nailed the point of attitudes to the Earth,that's the one. Makes even a hardened cynic like me pause and reflect for a while and rue the human condition. Ah well,there y'go. Music review over! Politicians should use it as their climate change anthem, like Labour used the song 'Things can only get better' in their election campaign! It'd be more effective,for sure.

Kinda Monty P. and the Arthur saga " I'm 42, I'm not old...". Many names 'Threshold shift', 'Dreams of Talos', 'Men of Substance' and of course I was a Neave before I was a Ballantine-Gray!

Holland and Germany were where I was better known and with radio exposure and regular Gigs ( and no 'small bread' in the 'green rooms')....

Edited October 12, 2007 by Gray-Wolf