What are the best snow synoptics for Birmingham UK?

[FreezeManiac]

I would like to know what synoptics deliver in excess of 15cm of snow for Birmingham. If you could post some archive charts that would be nice. Thanks!

[The watcher]

Should be posted in the regional threads Freeze, likely to be moved/merged.

[FreezeManiac]

Sorry! :/

[Aaron]

Nuclear winter.. lol.. just kidding.

[TonyH]

When I lived in Coventry, 6 inches or more occurred quite often late 70's to early 90's. Various synoptics, including Easterly blast with North Sea convection (87), cold cutting about a wet low (gave a foot in Dec 90), fronts from SW into very cold air (78).

Edited October 24, 2012 by TonyH

[TonyH]

In contrast don't think 6 inches has been topped for the past 20 years!

[Weather-history]

I would like to know what synoptics deliver in excess of 15cm of snow for Birmingham. If you could post some archive charts that would be nice. Thanks!

2nd March 1995: low pressure tracking to the south of Birmingham and being on the northern flank, it fell as snow

[Alan Medlock Valley]

I am actually surprised Birmingham hasn't done better for snow over the past few years considering 90% of the city is ideally placed between 100-200m above sea level, infact I think the Dudley area is about 200-250m.

I would of thought the city would do well from an Easterly, more especially a North Easterly with slightly less land for the convective showers to travel plus no high ground to block any degradation, also as already posted from a front approaching from the SW bumping into cold air in place.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Alan Medlock Valley

[Aaron]

It is located far inland, far from either coastline, so it is no surprise it doesn't receive much snow. It's also the UK's second largest city, so is hardly going to be the Alps.

I guess low pressure systems would deliver a lot of snow to the Midlands.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Aaron

[Gord]

We seem to get what I'd call 'half-decent' snow events around here. The height is key..there's such a variation in altitude across the West Midlands. However, we can get ok amounts of snow from many directions. 2nd Feb 2009 mostly came from the east. One of our biggest snows of recent times was on the 18th December 2010...that was from a system pushing from the south. Also remember the end of November/start of December 2010 where it seemed to take 3-4 days to accumulate 3cm of snow from being on the very end of a streamer from the north east!

To get insane amounts of snow around here, we need a lot of luck. There have been many times over the past few years where there has been the small possibility of a very large amount of snow here but the possibility of rain was larger from some system skimming to our south...and of couse we ended up with very wet weather with a bit of back edge snow each time.

One day it will all come together again for the West Midlands. But for now, we'll make do with the 'better than nothing' snow events we seem to get! (which on the face of it, can be pretty decent!)

[Chess01]

Luckly in stoke we have the height and we get some good Cheshire gap streamers . Just the Peak District that can block some of the cold

[Cheshire Freeze]

Luckly in stoke we have the height and we get some good Cheshire gap streamers . Just the Peak District that can block some of the cold

Aye the Potteries are a completely different world weatherwise to here, despite being only 10-15 miles up the A500. Many times when I was at Staffs uni I'd leave Crewe where it was clear only to hit snow Just past the M6 junction 16 heading down the D road.

Edited October 24, 2012 by CreweCold

[Alan Medlock Valley]

It is located far inland, far from either coastline, so it is no surprise it doesn't receive much snow. It's also the UK's second largest city, so is hardly going to be the Alps.

I guess low pressure systems would deliver a lot of snow to the Midlands.

Yes located far inland but far from coastal influences i.e slightly milder conditions to moderate snow so surface cold pooling would be good for Birmingham and hence in theory more snowfall, also the height of most of the city will definitley help, houses won't be a huge concern but only if you get enough height (150m and above) then your laughing in most of the UK. I think Birmingham has just been unlucky in recent times when it comes to huge snowfall.

[Chess01]

Aye the Potteries are a completely different world weatherwise to here, despite being only 10-15 miles up the A500

I no as seen on the 16th December 2011 . Cheshire is unlucky as most of its low lying but is further north so is more prone to cold

[Gord]

Indeed, the Stoke area can do very well from Cheshire streamers because there are quite a few possibilities for the angle it needs to be at for there. Down here, we really need it all heading in the right direction to get to us. I can only get excited about a Cheshire streamer if reports of snow come from south of Stafford...and that's still not a guarantee!

[Cheshire Freeze]

Indeed, the Stoke area can do very well from Cheshire streamers because there are quite a few possibilities for the angle it needs to be at for there. Down here, we really need it all heading in the right direction to get to us. I can only get excited about a Cheshire streamer if reports of snow come from south of Stafford...and that's still not a guarantee!

Believe me, the worst wind direction for here is wnw where all the showers get funnelled towards Warrington, Runcorn etc across to north Cheshire and Greater Manchester. Winter 2009/2010 springs to mind......I cannot explain in words how cut up I still am about that. Stockport = 30cm of snow, Crewe = 2cm.

I can understand your frustration at your location. Makes it worse when you can see the CB train to the north not getting any closer.

Edited October 24, 2012 by CreweCold

[Aaron]

Yes located far inland but far from coastal influences i.e slightly milder conditions to moderate snow so surface cold pooling would be good for Birmingham and hence in theory more snowfall, also the height of most of the city will definitley help, houses won't be a huge concern but only if you get enough height (150m and above) then your laughing in most of the UK. I think Birmingham has just been unlucky in recent times when it comes to huge snowfall.

Yes it is removed from coastal areas but potent showers and streamers will not penetrate that far inland usually. What snow falls will linger longer of course.

And averages by the Met show Birmingham has a significant urban heat island.

[Alan Medlock Valley]

Yes it is removed from coastal areas but potent showers and streamers will not penetrate that far inland usually. What snow falls will linger longer of course.

And averages by the Met show Birmingham has a significant urban heat island.

A North Easterly from the Wash would certainly penetrate to Birmingham. Also Leeds and Bradford is a large urban area but you say you do well for snow yet your not high up but Birmingham is. You can't say somewhere that is built up but at 200m is not going to get at least some decent snowfall at some point either.

[Aaron]

A North Easterly from the Wash would certainly penetrate to Birmingham. Also Leeds and Bradford is a large urban area but you say you do well for snow yet your not high up but Birmingham is. You can't say somewhere that is built up but at 200m is not going to get at least some decent snowfall at some point either.

But the urban heat island of Leeds and Bradford isn't as potent as Birmingham, not to mention we are further north and slightly closer to the coast, yet far enough inland not to be influenced by the coast at all. I'm sure my fellow Leeds posters can back me up here.

Also this area varies a lot in elevation - some parts of Leeds are above 200m.

Birmingham can get big snowfalls, but I guess they're just not as likely as in other areas.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Aaron

[Cheshire Freeze]

I no as seen on the 16th December 2011 . Cheshire is unlucky as most of its low lying but is further north so is more prone to cold

Yes it's our altitude that really stuffs us up here. Most of Crewe is 50-55m. This rises fairly quickly as you head east though with places 10-20 miles east and north east of here rising to 200 metres and even higher as you head east of Congleton etc.

[Alan Medlock Valley]

But the urban heat island of Leeds and Bradford isn't as potent as Birmingham, not to mention we are further north and slightly closer to the coast, yet far enough inland not to be influenced by the coast at all. I'm sure my fellow Leeds posters can back me up here.

Also this area varies a lot in elevation - some parts of Leeds are above 200m.

Birmingham can get big snowfalls, but I guess they're just not as likely as in other areas.

Have you measured the urban heat potentness in certain cities? sometimes when you have no sun for a day even that can influence urban heat levels especially in Winter with our weak sun and even more so in high areas where cold air aloft will help. Snow does fall much more in a higher urban area than a lower urban area.

[Aaron]

Clearly past experiences and records will beg to differ. Simply saying somewhere is higher so therefore snow must fall in greater quantities and more frequently is stupid. Weather is not that simple or black and white and I'd expect you to know that.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Aaron

[Alan Medlock Valley]

Clearly past experiences and records will beg to differ. Simply saying somewhere is higher so therefore snow must fall in greater quantities and more frequently is stupid. Weather is not that simple or black and white and I'd expect you to know that.

It is a certainty, like you said yourself last week about how Leeds city centre being at the lowest point in the city doesn't get as much snow as built up areas in the suburbs just a few miles away but higher up. Look at Glasgow too, they very rarely have huge amounts of snow there yet look how far North they are and built up. The reason is it is only about 20m asl.

[Gord]

Can anyone from this area ever recall a snowless winter here? I've been living in the West Midlands since 2006 (Staffordshire until 2008, Stourbridge since then)...and none of the winters have gone without some kind of snow event. 2007/2008 and 2011/2012 were very poor but both had measureable snow on the ground at least once.

Did the West Midlands do as badly as elsewhere in 1997/1998 for example? That's the only snowless winter I can recall but I was living in Suffolk at the time. I think a winter or 2 in the late 80's may have been snowless as well.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

1999/2000 winter was virtually snowless, the only snow I saw was wet snow on 3-4 April

B'ham has elevation advantage quite high some parts, would do very well off north sea snow streamers, must have done well on 18th Dec 2010, and surely 19th Nov 1996