What snow event favours Wales and the South West?

[Snowmadsam]

I just thought I would start this thread for us few and far between Westerly members...

Would be grateful if someone could let me/us know.

Many thanks,

Sam

[I Cumbria Marra I]

Northerly.

[AWD]

Two words;

CHANNEL LOW ( for SW England anyway )

Edited November 1, 2012 by AWD

[Jackfrost]

Frontal events can be fantastic in Wales and over inland/higher parts of Southwest England and many of our biggest ever snowfalls (February 1963, February 1978, January 1982) have come from this setup.

Straight Northerlies with a Westerly component often deliver in Wales and on the North coast of Southwest England and often penetrate far inland in both regions, with showers and troughs (February 26th 2004, November 25th 2005, March 1st 2006, December 17th 2010)

Streamers in the Bristol Channel which affect the North coast of Devon, Somerset and the Bristol area and South Wales can also form (December 21st 2009 and last night)

Southwest England is in a prime position for channel lows (February 2009, several times in 2009-10), but it's always touch and go as to where the dividing line between the cold and mild air lies, and the position of the low.

Easterlies are often sapped of any meaningful precipitation by the time they reach the West and rarely deliver any snow in West Wales, but Southern coasts of Devon and Cornwall can do well, as I believe they did in 1987. Other areas tend to see light, patchy snowfall.

Northeasterlies tend to bring nothing at all unless another factor comes into play, such as the forming of a low or occlusion.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Jackfrost

[I remember Atlantic 252]

surely a battleground type setup, or a showery polar westerly (high levels wales)

[Dorsetbred]

Historically it's been a good strong Northerly, that builds snowfall amounts over the moors, of course as it heads in adding a NW component works wonder.

[Aaron]

Somewhere in SW England recorded the largest daily snowfall total in the entirety of the UK (at least for low-lying areas) - surely a low pressure system with a lot of moisture colliding with cold air would do the trick, not sure what setup would be required to achieve this.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Aaron

[Jackfrost]

Somewhere in SW England recorded the largest daily snowfall total in the entirety of the UK (at least for low-lying areas

I know that Okehampton in Devon saw a huge snowfall in early 2010, it was either 55cm or 55in.

And I know for a fact that Tredegar in South Wales holds the record for the deepest level snow in an urban area in the UK: 5.5ft in February 1963.

Both were, I think, the result of lows from the west colliding with cold air.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Jackfrost

[Weather-history]

A good northerly with troughs in the flow, such as late Feb 2004

[Aaron]

Yes Okehampton had 55cm which is remarkable, and that S Wales recording is outstanding, shows how well SW England and Wales can do when all that Atlantic moisture collides with cold air.

[Mark Neal.]

Can't beat a channel low, a low pressure system moving in from the SW, hitting colder air.. Bam= SNOW!

[Bristawl Si]

Can't beat a channel low, a low pressure system moving in from the SW, hitting colder air.. Bam= SNOW!

Agreed.

Experienced a few of these back in early 80s / late 70s.

See some archive newspaper reports from last 100 yrs - you'll read about a number of events like these for thr south west.

Not an uncommon weather feature decades ago.

[Snowmadsam]

I prefer the streamers personally....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pembrokeshire_Dangler

[Nights King]

Northerly.

Not so good for the bulk of west country as it is sheltered by the large landmass to our north called the uk or more especialy wales. Cornish moors can do fairly well though.

Channel low is with out a doubt the biggest jack pot for us.

[Snowmadsam]

Thanks for your help guys......

[J10]

The best setup is NNW winds, to allow snow streamers to develop. The contrast between in the milder sea and the colder upper air, aides convective activity and it is quite possible for 4-6 inches overnight, more so if there is a trough as mentioned earlier.

Channel Lows can also be very productive indeed, and can give much heavier snowfall totals, but quite often with these there is a narrow band with the snow,

[J10]

A good northerly with troughs in the flow, such as late Feb 2004

We had around 4 inches of snow form that, but in the sun this has thawed completely by the end of the afternoon. Showing the strength of the sun in Later February.

[mcweather]

Three of the top five worst blizzards ( in terms of snow depth and severity of drifting) to have occured in the UK since 1860 have occured in the south west of England all were the results of channel lows or stalling fronts. Not a northerly in sight.

[Eskimo]

Definitely battle ground, as long as the cold pushes west enough.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

now would be a great setup for even low levels Wales/SW England, this synoptic setup, just 3 weeks too early, high levels especially 300m would see massive totals

no good for my area though

[virtualsphere]

It probably depends where you are in the country - I can see from your location that you're fairly close to me here in Carmarthenshire.

For a single snow event, this delivered my location the most snow in a 24 hour period in at least the last 20 years. 850hPa temps were borderline throughout. I was caught in the gridlock mentioned here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6344685.stm

For snow depth we did equally well in Nov / Dec 2010 which of course lasted for much, much longer, but the snow built up more gradually. Nov / Dec 2010 is the longest lasting event I can remember (I was around in 1982 but too small to remember it).

As you're closer to Pembrokeshire, something like this would probably be good for you:

A good article about this event here: http://www.geologywa...s/autumn05b.htm - we did fairly well here, especially for November, and probably saw the most snow I'd seen since 2001, but it has since been eclipsed by the events in Feb 2007, Feb 2009, Jan 2010 and Nov / Dec 2010. I think areas closer to the coast in Pembrokeshire had more snow. These northerly events tend to be more convective so you rely on getting the wind being from exactly the right direction, whereas the Feb 2007 frontal battleground event affected a much wider area.

From memory I'm pretty sure we didn't do as well for snow during the legendary Feb 1991 event as the South East, as I don't remember getting much if any time off school. I'm not sure about Jan 1987 - I've got memories of building snowmen from around this period but I'm not sure if it was from 1986 or 1987.

Two of my other favourites were Christmas Days 1993 and Christmas Day 1995 because of the timing rather than volume of snow or longevity. 1993 was the only occasion I've been able to build a snowman on Christmas Day:

Edited November 1, 2012 by virtualsphere

[J10]

It probably depends where you are in the country - I can see from your location that you're fairly close to me here in Carmarthenshire.

For a single snow event, this delivered my location the most snow in a 24 hour period in at least the last 20 years. 850hPa temps were borderline throughout. I was caught in the gridlock mentioned here: http://news.bbc.co.u...les/6344685.stm

For snow depth we did equally well in Nov / Dec 2010 which of course lasted for much, much longer, but the snow built up more gradually. Nov / Dec 2010 is the longest lasting event I can remember (I was around in 1982 but too small to remember it).

As you're closer to Pembrokeshire, something like this would probably be good for you:

A good article about this event here: http://www.geologywa...s/autumn05b.htm - we did fairly well here, especially for November, and probably saw the most snow I'd seen since 2001, but it has since been eclipsed by the events in Feb 2007, Feb 2009, Jan 2010 and Nov / Dec 2010. I think areas closer to the coast in Pembrokeshire had more snow. These northerly events tend to be more convective so you rely on getting the wind being from exactly the right direction, whereas the Feb 2007 frontal battleground event affected a much wider area.

From memory I'm pretty sure we didn't do as well for snow during the legendary Feb 1991 event as the South East, as I don't remember getting much if any time off school. I'm not sure about Jan 1987 - I've got memories of building snowmen from around this period but I'm not sure if it was from 1986 or 1987.

Two of my other favourites were Christmas Days 1993 and Christmas Day 1995 because of the timing rather than volume of snow or longevity. 1993 was the only occasion I've been able to build a snowman on Christmas Day:

Always good to discuss snow events. great articles there. I remember the 2007 event well, I was working at Port Talbot a the time, and it was raining there but there were reports of heavy snow, and I had to walk up the hill to get home in the heavy snow. There was a thaw the following day, and that pretty much the only snow event of that winter.

We did well in November 05, we gently tend to do well in NNW flows. a straight northerly the snow goes to Pembrokeshire and a NW the showers move across to SE Wales and miss us.

On the main snow event on Thursday 7 February 1991 we had around 6 inches of snow, but very much a different type to the type we normally get. Normally much of the snow we get is wet, but in 1991 it was so cold, we received powdery snow, (the famous British Rail - wrong type of snow) I remember seeing the snow crystals come down the during the day at around 4pm and even the little crystals stuck during the day which is unusual, in total we had around 6 inches of fresh snow. That was on the Thursday, on the Friday and Saturday there were perfectly clear blue skies, and there was not a hint of thawing until the Sunday, that is very unusual as normally at least there some thawing in sunshine.

The first snows were on the 30th Jan 1991, give a deep blanket, and in the shade this remained until the 14th February, with thawing of the snow at times in the sun. (excluding the few days after the main second snowfall mentioned above)

We had snowfall on Christmas Evening 2001 and 2004, with the 2001 variety giving much more snowfall, 1993 has snowcover on the grass, with soaking wet paths, and 2010 had a deep covering of snow, but no snow fall that day.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Jackone

[Snowmadsam]

I am hoping that we will get something this winter...we had a no snow at all in winter 11/12.....

Edited November 2, 2012 by Snowmadsam

[Eskimo]

I am hoping that we will get something this winter...we had a no snow at all in winter 11/12.....

My deepest sympathies to you, I would hate that dearly.

[virtualsphere]

Always good to discuss snow events. great articles there. I remember the 2007 event well, I was working at Port Talbot a the time, and it was raining there but there were reports of heavy snow, and I had to walk up the hill to get home in the heavy snow. There was a thaw the following day, and that pretty much the only snow event of that winter.

We did well in November 05, we gently tend to do well in NNW flows. a straight northerly the snow goes to Pembrokeshire and a NW the showers move across to SE Wales and miss us.

On the main snow event on Thursday 7 February 1991 we had around 6 inches of snow, but very much a different type to the type we normally get. Normally much of the snow we get is wet, but in 1991 it was so cold, we received powdery snow, (the famous British Rail - wrong type of snow) I remember seeing the snow crystals come down the during the day at around 4pm and even the little crystals stuck during the day which is unusual, in total we had around 6 inches of fresh snow. That was on the Thursday, on the Friday and Saturday there were perfectly clear blue skies, and there was not a hint of thawing until the Sunday, that is very unusual as normally at least there some thawing in sunshine.

The first snows were on the 30th Jan 1991, give a deep blanket, and in the shade this remained until the 14th February, with thawing of the snow at times in the sun. (excluding the few days after the main second snowfall mentioned above)

We had snowfall on Christmas Evening 2001 and 2004, with the 2001 variety giving much more snowfall, 1993 has snowcover on the grass, with soaking wet paths, and 2010 had a deep covering of snow, but no snow fall that day.

It sounds like you did well in 1991. I'm sure I would remember it if we'd had as much as that but I was only 13 at the time it's possible that it passed me by. We do tend to be more sheltered from easterly events here although we did well in Feb 2009, probably because it was more of a frontal event.

I remember 2001 quite well - we had a fair amount of snow on Boxing Day. We also had a light dusting on Christmas Day in 2004, and probably the most lying snow I've seen at Christmas in 2010 although none falling on the day.

We have done well for snow in recent years especially compared to the period 1997 - 2005, but I would love to see another battleground event like 2007 as part of a more favourable overall cold winter.