Austrian Glacier Balance Winter 2012/13 show mass increase .

[carinthian]

Results are now in for measurements of snow depth taken in early May. All show average mass increases in snow on all Austrian Glaciers.The Hydro measuring period is Oct to April. Whether the mass increase helps to slow the increasingly rapid retreat of all Austrian glaciers will not be known until the end of this summer.Substantial snowfall results is good news and may be a result of a cooler down period now taking place . However, a noticeable deposit of Saharan dust was detected on the glaciers in earlier this month from a strong southerly over Austria. Unfortunately, dust keeps for a long time on snow cover and as a result more radiation is absorbed and then there is an increase in melting.

Looking out to the Hohe Tauren mountain range there is clearly more snowfall retention at 2000m and above than seen for a long time, but what it will look like come the end of September will be another point of interest .

Anyway the last patch of snow melted from my back garden over the weekend as warmer temperatures return. Surprised it lasted this long !  The picture shows the dust deposit on the observation station of a glacier.

Edited May 20, 2013 by carinthian

[Cheshire Freeze]

I think we've entered interesting times TBH. I think any effects from now on will be rather rapid, whether it be a turn around of fortunes and a glacial advance or a complete melting out. The next 50 years should be highly intriguing one way or another.

[BornFromTheVoid]

Thanks for the info carinthian.

How long have the regular snow depth measurements been taken? Is there a link to the survey website or anything?

[ANYWEATHER]

Thanks for the info! Quite amazing stuff really, I really think that our weather/climate has seen a great turning point in the last few years!  

Edited May 20, 2013 by ANYWEATHER

[Gray-Wolf]

Couldn't agree more Anyweather and the data on 'extreme weather events' seems to bear us out on the observation! Where the energy to drive such extremes arises is anyone's guess.......isn't it?

[ANYWEATHER]

Couldn't agree more Anyweather and the data on 'extreme weather events' seems to bear us out on the observation! Where the energy to drive such extremes arises is anyone's guess.......isn't it?

Of course our modern method of measuring just about anything and everything comes into question, although the shrinking and expanding of glaciers is basically easy to see! "Anyones guess"? Well surely if a warming world was the case, mass extinction of glaciers would be the driving force, but not advancing glaciers!??  

[carinthian]

Thanks for the info carinthian.

How long have the regular snow depth measurements been taken? Is there a link to the survey website or anything?

 

Hello there.

 Glacier retreat has been measured for the last 122 years. This is documented annually by the Alpine Club ( OAV ) 

Snowfall mass is a precise measurement on selected glacier observation points. This is provided by the Central Institute of Meteorology and Geodynamics who produce the results annually in May of each year.This is a relative new research compared to the Alpine Club observations.

What is of interest, is that 93 of 95 glaciers retreated in 2012. The recent record is the Pasterze Glacier which retreated by 97.3 metres last year. The average loss of all glaciers in Austria was 17.4 m. So this winters snow mass increase should provide some interesting data come September as to whether this has any effect on the present increasing rate of glacier retreat or shows the start of a advance , a hold or none at all !

 C

C

[carinthian]

Of course our modern method of measuring just about anything and everything comes into question, although the shrinking and expanding of glaciers is basically easy to see! "Anyones guess"? Well surely if a warming world was the case, mass extinction of glaciers would be the driving force, but not advancing glaciers!??  

Hi,

 From the top of Katschberg mountain, I can see clearly with the naked eye one of the main glaciers that spurns from Gross Glockner Range. The Pasterze Glacier retreated by a recording breaking 97.3 m in 2012. Presently it is covered with a deep covering of winter snowfall  which is a concurrent theme on most glaciers at the moment. The end of summer measurements will be of great interest as to whether increased snowfall has any affect on glacier expansion of continued rapid retreat ?

C

[ANYWEATHER]

Hi,

 From the top of Katschberg mountain, I can see clearly with the naked eye one of the main glaciers that spurns from Gross Glockner Range. The Pasterze Glacier retreated by a recording breaking 97.3 m in 2012. Presently it is covered with a deep covering of winter snowfall  which is a concurrent theme on most glaciers at the moment. The end of summer measurements will be of great interest as to whether increased snowfall has any affect on glacier expansion of continued rapid retreat ?

C

Well for the week ahead the snowcover looks set to stay over the Alps judging by this chart,,,!

Edited May 20, 2013 by ANYWEATHER

[ANYWEATHER]

Hello there.

 Glacier retreat has been measured for the last 122 years. This is documented annually by the Alpine Club ( OAV ) 

Snowfall mass is a precise measurement on selected glacier observation points. This is provided by the Central Institute of Meteorology and Geodynamics who produce the results annually in May of each year.This is a relative new research compared to the Alpine Club observations.

What is of interest, is that 93 of 95 glaciers retreated in 2012. The recent record is the Pasterze Glacier which retreated by 97.3 metres last year. The average loss of all glaciers in Austria was 17.4 m. So this winters snow mass increase should provide some interesting data come September as to whether this has any effect on the present increasing rate of glacier retreat or shows the start of a advance , a hold or none at all !

 C

C

Quick question? why virtually all the glaciers retreated bar 2? Seems odd in my opinion?

[carinthian]

Quick question? why virtually all the glaciers retreated bar 2? Seems odd in my opinion?

 

Yep, none increased. Only two remained the same and they were localised in the Carnic Alps ( Southern Austria )

[ANYWEATHER]

Yep, none increased. Only two remained the same and they were localised in the Carnic Alps ( Southern Austria )

uummgghhh... Thanks!

[PeteG]

I wouldn't have thought one years snowfall is going to make any difference. If any survives the summer melt it will take some time to become ice and that will be at the higher elevations. It will take years for it to get down to the lower part of the glacier and have an effect, and that assumes that (a) that sufficient snow lasts until next winter and (b)subsequent years have snow that survives the summer melt to increase the ice mass to make a noticeable difference.

[ANYWEATHER]

I wouldn't have thought one years snowfall is going to make any difference. If any survives the summer melt it will take some time to become ice and that will be at the higher elevations. It will take years for it to get down to the lower part of the glacier and have an effect, and that assumes that (a) that sufficient snow lasts until next winter and (b)subsequent years have snow that survives the summer melt to increase the ice mass to make a noticeable difference.

Apart from inaccurate data, There as been a benchmark in the Northern Hemisphere for weather patterns too!  

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm sure the folk who live there can tell whether we are seeing their local glacier melting away or growing down valley? Increased weight at the head of the basin might 'squeeze out' more ice at the bottom (like toothpaste) but last winters snow will take quite a while before it presents at the base of the glacier? I tend to think 2012's snow will melt out way up valley as the recent warming perculates into the whole of the ice mass leading to enhanced ablation (as we saw last summer)?

[carinthian]

Hi,

 From the top of Katschberg mountain, I can see clearly with the naked eye one of the main glaciers that spurns from Gross Glockner Range. The Pasterze Glacier retreated by a recording breaking 97.3 m in 2012. Presently it is covered with a deep covering of winter snowfall  which is a concurrent theme on most glaciers at the moment. The end of summer measurements will be of great interest as to whether increased snowfall has any affect on glacier expansion of continued rapid retreat ?

C

 

Good Morning,

 Latest image of The Mollater Gracier. This also spurns from the Gross Glockner Range. Latest snow depth is 300cm at( 3100m ) 118cm at base of glacier. Snow depth below the glacier is 70cm at (2200m) compared to none this time last year. Snowfall equivalent to 18mm of rainfall is forecast for Friday and a minimum temperature of -15C on the top!

[carinthian]

I'm sure the folk who live there can tell whether we are seeing their local glacier melting away or growing down valley? Increased weight at the head of the basin might 'squeeze out' more ice at the bottom (like toothpaste) but last winters snow will take quite a while before it presents at the base of the glacier? I tend to think 2012's snow will melt out way up valley as the recent warming perculates into the whole of the ice mass leading to enhanced ablation (as we saw last summer)?

 

I have seen the local Pasterze glacier retreat by 200 metres since 2005 and at an increasing annual rate.  The increase of snow mass accumulations during the past 6 months may slow down the retreat. However, we will not know until the Alpine Club have carried out their annual measurements and results after the end of summer melt period. Currently ,snow depths from top to base on many glaciers in the region are greater for the later part of May than have been seen for a few years.

C

[carinthian]

Rather than open a new topic, I will stay on the theme regarding the snow in Austria. We have just received a warning regarding dangereous snowfall conditions this coming Sunday..

By Sunday morning, 20-40 cm of fresh snowfall widely expected in the Western half of the country. The snowline will be down to the valley 600m-1000m. The heaviest snowfall will be the Hohe Tauren with 60 inches possible on the higher terrain. The extra weight on trees and leaves may cause some to fall !

In a great contrast to the seasons, a record breaking 18C was recorded on 24th December 2012, 13c in Salzburg. Only a maximum of 8C is expected there on 24th May 2013. Looks like I will have to get the snow shovel out again !!

C

[Gray-Wolf]

Seems like the 'weather' extremes are so great as to allow 'season swaps' in some areas? From last years 'heatwave' march to this years Arctic March?

[pottyprof]

I would have thought that the heatwave was more down to 'weather' and not 'climate' GW. Admittedly there has been dwindling snow accumulations for a few decades but I wouldn't have thought this was unusual over long time-scales.

Wasn't there a man that had been buried in the snow for a few hundred years up a mountain in the Alps? Wasn't the thinking something about sudden onset of cold temperatures catching him out and perished up there? Perhaps I dreamt it?

Any idea to what I'm waffling on about carinthian?

Nice to see you posting in this section again btw

[carinthian]

I would have thought that the heatwave was more down to 'weather' and not 'climate' GW. Admittedly there has been dwindling snow accumulations for a few decades but I wouldn't have thought this was unusual over long time-scales.

Wasn't there a man that had been buried in the snow for a few hundred years up a mountain in the Alps? Wasn't the thinking something about sudden onset of cold temperatures catching him out and perished up there? Perhaps I dreamt it?

Any idea to what I'm waffling on about carinthian?

Nice to see you posting in this section again btw

 

Nice to read your post . Yep, no idea what you are on about !, However, most of the locals here use a phrase here to describe the last 6  months weather..

"wir sind umgezogen ", which means, "we have moved "..in  relation to the seasons.

The Autumn was unseasonably warm over here and on Christmas Eve, a record breaking 18.4 C was recorded in Austria . Glacier retreated by a record margin by the end of 2012. Today, winter continues as Spring was never sprung, the snow level down to 700m in places and a increase in glacier snow mass recorded at the beginning of the month.

Yep, I have no idea of what is going. Mayby, part of the rich cycle that is the weather, but the past fews years have produced interesting changes in my observations. Will try and get up to see one of the glaciers in the next few weeks to see whats going on, but too cold at the moment to venture up there !

 C

[jethro]

I would have thought that the heatwave was more down to 'weather' and not 'climate' GW. Admittedly there has been dwindling snow accumulations for a few decades but I wouldn't have thought this was unusual over long time-scales.

Wasn't there a man that had been buried in the snow for a few hundred years up a mountain in the Alps? Wasn't the thinking something about sudden onset of cold temperatures catching him out and perished up there? Perhaps I dreamt it?

Any idea to what I'm waffling on about carinthian?

Nice to see you posting in this section again btw

 

Since the glaciers have been melting, quite a few things have turned up, including bodies and WW1 ammunition. I too remember the story of a man buried for a few hundred years but can't find any info, perhaps we both dreamt it? Here's some info on things that have turned up, including Oetzi the Iceman.

 

http://www.iceman.it/en/node/226

 

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/01/13612930-melting-glacier-reveals-world-war-i-ammunition?lite

 

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/21/17403302-pre-viking-tunic-found-on-glacier-as-warming-trend-aids-archaeology?lite

[4wd]

These items which have thawed out in situ would seem to indicate that the ice was at least as 'retreated' then as it is now.Caution is required due to the continual movement - however Oetzi took shelter then died by a boulder and the ice flowed over him for centuries.Ergo there was not a glacier there when he died, but the spot happened to become more or less permanently covered in snow then ice within months of his death.Changes are normal.Attributing recent retreat or future increase  in mass to CO2 is not reasonable - not least because glaciers respond as much to precipitation as temperature.

At high levels most precipitation year round is snow regardless of a degree or so of warming.

[PeteG]

Nor was there ice flowing over him for centuries, if it had his body would have been ground to pieces.

[pottyprof]

Many thanks for the replies.

As BFTV said over in the Arctic ice thread, at the minute it's been an uneventful season. I'd like to add there seems to be a bit of 'normality' at the moment with cold locked up where it should be and snow on the Alps.

As always, time will tell....