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Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted (edited)

Greenland and Antarctica are effectively 'deserts' at present I wonder if they 'warmed' the increasing snow fall in the interior would off set any sea level rises.

 

"""The new estimates are less than some previous estimates, and in total they are less than 1 percent of the amount of water stored in the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, which collectively contain slightly more than 200 feet, or 63 meters, of sea rise""".

 

Actually it might be correct to say Antarctica is effectively a desert but not Greenland. As ice mass balance loss accelerates I would think it extremely unlikely that increased snowfall, if indeed this was the case, would increase in sufficient amounts to maintain the status quo. As you know accurate records are of very short duration so it's impossible to be definitive about this but there have been some recent papers which I would have thought quite worrying. Plus in the shorter term the melting of other glaciers world wide could impact on millions regarding supplies of fresh water. This is a problem that is already causing concern.

 

Clearest evidence yet of polar ice losses

 

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/news/article/3336/clearest_evidence_yet_of_polar_ice_losses

 

Greenland's current loss of ice mass

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12001628

Edited by knocker
Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted

Sentinel satellite spies ice cap speed-up

 

Melting at one of the largest ice caps on Earth has produced a big jump in its flow speed, satellite imagery suggests.

 

Austfonna on Norway's Svalbard archipelago covers just over 8,000 sq km and had been relatively stable for many years.

 

But the latest space data reveals a marked acceleration of the ice in its main outlet glacier to the Barents Sea.

 

The research was presented in Brussels on Thursday to mark the launch of the EU's new Sentinel-1a radar spacecraft.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27330321?utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-7845d50c57-303421281&utm_content=bufferd844e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted

Recent Global Glacier Retreat Overview

 

In recent years I have been asked to write the section on Glacier and Ice Sheets for the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Annual State of the Climate report, for example BAMS State of the Climate 2008, 2009 and 2010.  This forces me to keep up with investigations of  glacier terminus change around the globe.  This article documents some of the observations.  In historic times, glaciers grew during the Little Ice Age, a cool period from about 1550 to 1850. Subsequently, until about 1940, glaciers around the world retreated as climate warmed. Glacier recession declined and reversed, in many cases, from 1950 to 1980 as a slight global cooling occurred. Since 1980, glacier retreat has become increasingly rapid and ubiquitous, so much so that it has threatened the existence of many of the glaciers of the world [1]. This process has increased markedly since 1995, leading to such bizarre steps as covering sections of Austrian alpine glaciers with plastic to retard melting. The World Glacier Monitoring Service [2] has noted 19  consecutive years of negative mass balances, that is volume losses.  If a business had 19 consecutive losing years they would be bankrupt.  This can lead to the disappearance of a glacier as seen below with Milk Lake Glacier and Lewis Glacier, North Cascades, Washington.  Which melted away between 1988 and 1995, creating Milk Lake.  It also raises the need to forecast survival of individual smaller alpine glaciers.  The below is a regional overview to review the retreat of individual glaciers examined one at time look at the 150 posts in the glacier change blog.

 

http://www.nichols.edu/departments/Glacier/glacier_retreat.htm

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted (edited)
Chinese study shows Tibetan glaciers feeding Bhramaputra rapidly shrinking -
 

 

Glaciers in the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, the watershed for several Himalayan rivers, have been shrunk by 15 per cent in the past three decades and the situation could worsen in future due to global warming, Chinese scientists said on Wednesday. - See more at: http://www.domain-b.com/environment/20140522_bhramaputra.html#sthash.xWdc5NHk.1XBWF7x8.dpuf

 

Edited by knocker
Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted

Don't want to spend much time with the nonsense in that link. Just one example to wrap it up.

 

 

In North America, Zemp also concedes, “some positive values were reported from the North Cascade Mountains and the Juneau Ice Field.† (“Displaying positive values†means growing.)

 

Well

 

Mass balance is the difference between the amount of snow and ice accumulation on the glacier and the amount of snow and ice ablation (melting and sublimation) lost from the glacier. Climate change causes variations in temperature and snowfall, changing mass balance. Changes in mass balance control a glacier's long term behavior. This is just like your bank account with accumulation being deposits and ablation being withdraws.  A glacier with a sustained negative balance is out of equilibrium and will retreat. A glacier with a sustained positive balance is out of equilibrium and will advance. If a glacier still has a sustained negative balance after a period of significant retreat the glacier is likely in disequilibrium and will not survive, as it has no significant annual accumulation area.  Above you will find a series of links exploring North Cascade, North American and Global glacier mass balance.  In addition a pioneering means of mass balance forecasting is reviewed.  The World Glacier Monitoring Service annually compiles the mass balance measurements from around the world and has found the last 22 consecutive years to have a mean annual negative balance loss.  In the North Cascades the glaciers the cumulative mass balance loss is 15.0 m of glacier thickness, 25-45% of their volume in the last 30 years.

 

http://www.nichols.edu/departments/Glacier/mb.htm

  • Like 1
Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
Posted

 

I think most it happen between 1980 -1990 with little change since due to variations in local weather (which explains increases/decreases in glaciers over short terms 30-100 yrs)

Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
Posted (edited)

Don't want to spend much time with the nonsense in that link. Just one example to wrap it up.

 

 

Well

 

Mass balance is the difference between the amount of snow and ice accumulation on the glacier and the amount of snow and ice ablation (melting and sublimation) lost from the glacier. Climate change causes variations in temperature and snowfall, changing mass balance. Changes in mass balance control a glacier's long term behavior. This is just like your bank account with accumulation being deposits and ablation being withdraws.  A glacier with a sustained negative balance is out of equilibrium and will retreat. A glacier with a sustained positive balance is out of equilibrium and will advance. If a glacier still has a sustained negative balance after a period of significant retreat the glacier is likely in disequilibrium and will not survive, as it has no significant annual accumulation area.  Above you will find a series of links exploring North Cascade, North American and Global glacier mass balance.  In addition a pioneering means of mass balance forecasting is reviewed.  The World Glacier Monitoring Service annually compiles the mass balance measurements from around the world and has found the last 22 consecutive years to have a mean annual negative balance loss.  In the North Cascades the glaciers the cumulative mass balance loss is 15.0 m of glacier thickness, 25-45% of their volume in the last 30 years.

 

http://www.nichols.edu/departments/Glacier/mb.htm

 

If spent some time reading what you post it would surely be helpful  ??

 

A big cherry pick you have just done without probably knowing it.

 

You refer to just 10 glaciers in the North Casades who have shown a drop

 

There are over 700 glaciers in the North Casades

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Cascades#Glaciers

 

If you look at all 700 glaciers in that range rather then cherry pick you can see no real change last 40 years. (The figures/graph are near the bottom if don't have the time to read the report)

 

http://www.nichols.edu/departments/Glacier/north%20cascade%20glacier%20mass%20balance.htm

Edited by stewfox
Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted (edited)

Cherry pick, not really as every glacier in the world is not monitored which of course is obvious  And Mauri Pelto.Professor of Environmental Science at Nichols College in Massachusetts since 1989. Glaciologist has been directing the North Cascade Glacier Climate Project since 1984. This project monitors the mass balance and behavior of more glaciers than any other in North America  Also if you check with WGMS in detail you will note that some have expanded.
 

 

The cumulative global glacier mass balance record of glaciers reporting to WGMS. The increasingly negative trend is evident.

Posted Image

 

Am I also to take it you agree with another statement from the original link?

 

 

Contrary to Gore’s assertions, almost all of the ice-covered regions of the Earth are growing, not melting—and the seas are not rising.

Edited by knocker
Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
Posted

 

 

 I also to take it you agree with another statement from the original link?

 

10 glaciers chosen for their 'visual loss' monitored since 1984

 

Since 1997 any decline has fallen off. The report and all the links never said

 

"""In the North Cascades the glaciers the cumulative mass balance loss is 15.0 m of glacier thickness, 25-45% of their volume in the last 30 years"""

 

They also said there is evidence of increases in 1950s and 1970s

 

Its like asking the tallest six in the class to say how tall they are divide by six get a average and then say 'all the people in the world are getting taller'

 

Its also a fact many of the European glaciers melt rates compare with a base point of cira 1850s the end of the last mini ice age.

 

I wonder what European glaciers looked like in the medieval period warm period

Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted (edited)

 

Its like asking the tallest six in the class to say how tall they are divide by six get a average and then say 'all the people in the world are getting taller'

 

 

Exactly my original point regarding this in the link. Amazing deduction from a few glaciers and as already stated I'm not questioning that some glaciers are gaining mass.

 

almost all of the ice-covered regions of the Earth are now gaining mass. (Or, displaying positive values, if you will.)

 

Which is why the WGMS is the best link that I know of for reliable information as all glacier reports will be incorporated in the data base plus this and his already mentioned Largest North American project.

 

http://glacierchange.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/gauligletscher-accelerated-retreat-switzerland/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

And as you didn't respond first time around do you actually agree with this statement?

 

 

Contrary to Gore’s assertions, almost all of the ice-covered regions of the Earth are growing, not melting—and the seas are not rising.

Edited by knocker
Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted

Athabasca glacier melting at ‘astonishing’ rate of more than five metres a year

 

What’s believed to be the most-visited glacier in North America is losing more than five metres of ice every year and is in danger of completely disappearing within a generation, says a Parks Canada manager.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/athabasca-glacier-melting-at-astonishing-rate-of-more-than-five-metres-a-year/article18835512/

Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
Posted (edited)

Interesting

 

12 more glaciers that haven’t heard the news about global warming

 

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/12-more-glaciers-that-havent-heard-the-news-about-global-warming

 

Some shrink some grow, more shrinking at the moment due to the changes in the weather

Edited by stewfox
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
Posted (edited)

deleted

Edited by stewfox
Posted
  • Location: North York Moors
  • Location: North York Moors
Posted

http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/06/21/receding-swiss-glaciers-reveal-4000-year-old-forests-warmists-try-to-suppress-findings/ 

 

The reality is straightforward. The Alps, and regions elsewhere, were much warmer than now around 5000 years ago, and, indeed, for most of the time before that going back to the end of the Ice Age. There is absolutely no evidence at all that suggests current temperatures are, in any way, unusual.

Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
Posted

 

 

so temps during the thermal max, after leaving the last ice age , were struggling to match temps today as we cool away from the thermal max? Yeah! all seems fine and normal doesn't it 4?

Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted
Gangotri Glacier Retreat Continues 2013 and Hydropower

 

In India the Gangotri Glacier is the largest glacier at the headwaters of the Bhagirathi River. The false-color image below provided by NASA shows the retreat of Gangotri Glacier, situated in the Uttarkashi District of Garhwal Himalaya. It is one of the larger glaciers in the Himalaya, and like all of the nearby Himalayan glaciers is retreating significantly.

 

http://glacierchange.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/gangotri-glacier-retreat-and-hydropower/

Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted

Scientists wary as water and ice build behind glacier dam above Juneau

 

JUNEAU -- It's been pouring rain in Juneau lately, which has some people bracing for a new and unusual kind of flooding precipitated by climate change.

High above Juneau's populous Mendenhall Valley, Suicide Basin is filling with rainwater, snowmelt and ice, which is being held back by a dam of the Mendenhall Glacier.

 

http://www.adn.com/article/20140709/scientists-wary-water-and-ice-build-behind-glacier-dam-above-juneau#.U770ec94dCk.twitter

Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne
Posted (edited)

This is a terrific site IMO.

 

Himalayan Glacier Change Index

 

Himalaya Range Glacier Change Below is a list of individual glaciers in the Himalaya that illustrate what is happening glacier by glacier. In addition to the individual sample glaciers we tie the individual glaciers to the large scale changes of approximately 10,000 glaciers that have been examined in repeat satellite image inventories. In the Himalayan Range, stretching from the Karokaram Range in NW India east south east to the border region of Bhutan and China, detailed glacier mapping inventories, from GLIMS: (Global Land Ice Measurements from Space), ICIMOD (International Centre for Integrated Mountain Development), ISRO ( Indian Space Research Organisation) and Chinese National Committee for International Association of Cryospheric Science (IACS) of thousands of glaciers have indicated increased strong thinning and area loss since 1990 throughout the the Himalayan Range. The inventories rely on repeat imagery from ASTER, Corona, Landsat, IKONOS and SPOT imagery. It is simply not possible to make observations on this number of glaciers in the field.  This is an update to the assessment by Pelto (2012) in the BAMS State of the Climate, which was the source of a Skeptical Science article as well

Edited by knocker

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