Does a Mast year for Berries mean a cold winter?

[Cleeve Hill]

Can’t see there is a thread for this so here goes. 

This seems to be a Mast year for nuts (acorns) and berries (hawthorn and holly trees are loaded). 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

[alexisj9]

2 minutes ago, Cleeve Hill said:

Can’t see there is a thread for this so here goes. 

This seems to be a Mast year for nuts (acorns) and berries (hawthorn and holly trees are loaded). 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

Weather lore says yes, but I guess we'll find out this year. Not sure I've ever seen so many berries.

[*Stormforce~beka*]

10 minutes ago, Cleeve Hill said:

Can’t see there is a thread for this so here goes. 

This seems to be a Mast year for nuts (acorns) and berries (hawthorn and holly trees are loaded). 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

Never even heard of the term ...

[Seasonal Trim]

10 minutes ago, Cleeve Hill said:

Can’t see there is a thread for this so here goes. 

This seems to be a Mast year for nuts (acorns) and berries (hawthorn and holly trees are loaded). 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

I think nature is reactive rather than proactive. The trees and animals have as much of an idea as we do as to what the current Winter will do.

[virtualsphere]

According to this, 2013 saw a bumper crop and that was ahead of a stormy wet winter rather than cold 

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[Froze were the Days]

Seems like most years have a bumper crop for berries etc...been a poor summer for apples though (must have been the fairly cloudy wet July/mid-summer period).

[Roger J Smith]

Abundant berries are probably more of a signal of past conditions, but it could be predictive even so if past conditions are well correlated to some outcome. I see similarity to certain signs often cited, like St Swithins Day or 2nd Feb. I don't think the weather associated is predictive so much as it may be well correlated. As it does not often rain in mid July, a wet day then would probably be well correlated with a wet outlook. Also, as clear skies are not a high probability outcome in early Feb, then clear skies could give good odds of further clear skies which are also likely to be cold days. So if my theory is correct, these are valid folklore signs even if they are more directed by past weather events as logic would suggest, if they are in fact signs of a provident nature (or some higher power) that cannot really be measured easily by us anyway. 

Another example would be red skies at night, sailor's delight -- nothing about the future outcome determines the red sky, it is there because dust is trapped near the ground by calm winds and a developing inversion -- but those are weather conditions that are most likely to occur near high pressure especially if pressure is rising, so that explains the predictive nature. Red skies in the morning, while not a guarantee of foul weather, are more likely if high pressure is to the east in which case the odds of lower pressure arriving from the west are increased. 

As to specific reasoning for berries being abundant as a sign of cold winter, I feel that this sign is perhaps a bit complex compared to the others and at first glance I don't have any specific reasoning to offer as to what sequence of events is underway, or even if this particular folklore sign has any better chance to verify than random chance. Sounds like it did not verify in 2013-14.

[alexisj9]

24 minutes ago, Roger J Smith said:

Abundant berries are probably more of a signal of past conditions, but it could be predictive even so if past conditions are well correlated to some outcome. I see similarity to certain signs often cited, like St Swithins Day or 2nd Feb. I don't think the weather associated is predictive so much as it may be well correlated. As it does not often rain in mid July, a wet day then would probably be well correlated with a wet outlook. Also, as clear skies are not a high probability outcome in early Feb, then clear skies could give good odds of further clear skies which are also likely to be cold days. So if my theory is correct, these are valid folklore signs even if they are more directed by past weather events as logic would suggest, if they are in fact signs of a provident nature (or some higher power) that cannot really be measured easily by us anyway. 

Another example would be red skies at night, sailor's delight -- nothing about the future outcome determines the red sky, it is there because dust is trapped near the ground by calm winds and a developing inversion -- but those are weather conditions that are most likely to occur near high pressure especially if pressure is rising, so that explains the predictive nature. Red skies in the morning, while not a guarantee of foul weather, are more likely if high pressure is to the east in which case the odds of lower pressure arriving from the west are increased. 

As to specific reasoning for berries being abundant as a sign of cold winter, I feel that this sign is perhaps a bit complex compared to the others and at first glance I don't have any specific reasoning to offer as to what sequence of events is underway, or even if this particular folklore sign has any better chance to verify than random chance. Sounds like it did not verify in 2013-14.

Got to be honest, don't know if the Hawthorne's were like this over here that autumn, lived in Croydon then, and don't think they have any, or I have never noticed them if they do.

Edited October 9, 2023 by alexisj9

[Weather-history]

18 hours ago, Cleeve Hill said:

 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

Nature tends to be reactive rather than proactive.

Read many reports from the past such as fruit trees providing a second crop late into the autumn. They are not providing  for fauna because it thinks it will be hard winter, it is because conditions at the time permit it. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Weather-history

[Dan B]

19 hours ago, Cleeve Hill said:

Can’t see there is a thread for this so here goes. 

This seems to be a Mast year for nuts (acorns) and berries (hawthorn and holly trees are loaded). 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

Yup; the oak trees in the woods behind us are absolutely laden; we've been here 11 years and I've never seen them that full before...

 

The hawthorn hedge at the bottom of our garden before you go into the woods is also packed; the blackbirds especially are having a field day!

[Catacol]

11 hours ago, Roger J Smith said:

Abundant berries are probably more of a signal of past conditions, but it could be predictive even so if past conditions are well correlated to some outcome. I see similarity to certain signs often cited, like St Swithins Day or 2nd Feb. I don't think the weather associated is predictive so much as it may be well correlated. As it does not often rain in mid July, a wet day then would probably be well correlated with a wet outlook. Also, as clear skies are not a high probability outcome in early Feb, then clear skies could give good odds of further clear skies which are also likely to be cold days. So if my theory is correct, these are valid folklore signs even if they are more directed by past weather events as logic would suggest, if they are in fact signs of a provident nature (or some higher power) that cannot really be measured easily by us anyway. 

Another example would be red skies at night, sailor's delight -- nothing about the future outcome determines the red sky, it is there because dust is trapped near the ground by calm winds and a developing inversion -- but those are weather conditions that are most likely to occur near high pressure especially if pressure is rising, so that explains the predictive nature. Red skies in the morning, while not a guarantee of foul weather, are more likely if high pressure is to the east in which case the odds of lower pressure arriving from the west are increased. 

As to specific reasoning for berries being abundant as a sign of cold winter, I feel that this sign is perhaps a bit complex compared to the others and at first glance I don't have any specific reasoning to offer as to what sequence of events is underway, or even if this particular folklore sign has any better chance to verify than random chance. Sounds like it did not verify in 2013-14.

I like that mini red sky analysis

Any thoughts on the winter season ahead yet Roger?

[Dorsetbred]

On 08/10/2023 at 13:05, Cleeve Hill said:

Can’t see there is a thread for this so here goes. 

This seems to be a Mast year for nuts (acorns) and berries (hawthorn and holly trees are loaded). 

Is this Mother Nature providing for birds, small animals for a hard winter I wonder. 
 

Sadly,an old wives tales (or weather folklore), being truly driven by the past weather conditons (as noted in here already) its a reaction, not a preparation.

20 Winter Weather Folklore Sayings

WWW.ALMANAC.COM

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Weather lore: Our ancestors lived close to the land and by observing the natural world they learned to predict what the seasons would bring.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Dorsetbred

[snowray]

I have mentioned before that I have a friend from Romney Marsh who follows all this, particularly the behaviour of birds, geese in particular and even swans. Sometimes they get it right but are usually wrong particularly when it comes to cold weather and snowfall, interesting none the less.

[Chesil View]

There is no truth whatsoever in the lots of berries means a harsh cold winter. One of the best years ever for berries etc was 2013 and the winter that followed was one of the mildest?wettest and stormiest on record.

If thed sayings sayings were true then the harvest would have to be correspondingly poor in advance of mild winters because the birds/animals wouldn't be so badly affected as in a severe cold winter.

The amount of berries is purely down to growing conditions through the growing season