Frost HoIIow

I see your point but past severe Winters also relied on the transport network for bringing in supplies...not everyone had an allotment or their own food supply. There was still shops back in 62/63....which funnily enough needed transportation to get in the supplies. In regards to the power network we don't really know how it will cope. Not enough to panic about it. If things get bad in regards to supplies like food why not call in the army?

Gotta admit the LRF's so far are absolutely rubbish for us in western Europe. But they've been wrong before. No doubt Greece & Turkey will get pummeled with snow. They often do being on the eastern side of a Euro high.

Those types of conditions are pretty rare in this country though - they was in the 70s too, we had a run of mild Winters up until later in that decade. The person I was replying to said things stop working in this country with 2" of snow. It doesn't matter if it's level snow or drifted snow 2" inches of either should not cause issues or panic. If we can't cope with that then it's like a 3rd world country.

Down south perhaps or more likely just an excuse to get days off. We had well over a foot of level snow in Jan 2010 but apart from 24 hours of disruption road networks were ploughed and everything more or less back to normal after that. I can understand if it snowed heavy every single day giving further accumulations but when does that happen? It didn't even in 62/63. If people stayed at home for days despite roads being cleared then nothing would get done.

I don't think it would be as catastrophic as people think. Most importantly peoples homes are warmer now than in the past. I lived through 62/63 when we only had one fire in the house (living room), no central heating at all & no indoor toilet....we had to break the ice in the toilet bowl. Most elderly people these days have central heating so can stay warm throughout their home. I guess the downside is going out to get shopping if they don't have family to fetch it for them. That's where the problems start if they have mobility/blood pressure/heart issues & most people over 75 do.

Well next week things are set to turn much cooler across parts of Russia & into the far north of China too. Nothing exciting yet for them but the descent into Autumn becoming more entrenched over there. Temps struggling to get out of single figures by day with morning air frosts. Won't be long until Mohe in China will be like this. Maybe even heavy snow in October.

Yes whilst November/December 2010 was amazing in it's own right the following January & February were a complete contrast with February being especially mild - basically that Winter burst out the blocks quick but went out with a whimper whilst as you say the previous Winter had decent snow & cold during all 3 Winter months. The only Winter since then that has come close was 2013 with snow cover in Jan, Feb & March (Although the latter not meteorologically Winter). And that was the unusual thing about that year with March actually having a colder CET than all of the preceding Winter months.

No air frost here, got down to 1.3C this morning so a ground frost achieved.

The Winter ended up pretty decent here after a somewhat disappointing start although we had some snow cover in December. Between the 2nd & 11th February 2012 I recorded 7 ice days here with a decent fall of snow on the 4th. Holbeach recorded a minimum of -15.6C during that spell. I think for England it was a better spell of cold than anything we saw between 1997-2008. The far west of the UK & Ireland missed out completely on any proper cold though.

A chance of an air frost tonight for a few places. Ground frost a bit more widespread even in some southern parts.

But we have to listen to you rubbing it in about the snow in Canada.....almost all year round

The heavy rain that caused the rivers to run off the Pennines meant there was always a good supply of water for the mills. Often canals were built close to the rivers so they interjoined water & mills were built alongside canals. Damp air also was favourable that threads of cotton were less likely to snap in production.

Yeah our region is wet to say the least. It is crazy how dry the east is compared to here. Anyone would think the Pennines were the Himalayas. That's why areas like Oldham boomed with cotton mills because of the wet climate.

Certainly seems like now we've hit meteorological Autumn it actually does feel like Autumn all of a sudden. I don't mind as it's certainly better than sweating all the time with that humid mucky air from the south. Really hope we get a decent Winter. Apart from 2018's double beast from the east it hasn't been all that exciting since 2013 really. Apart from 2018 certainly devoid of any lengthy notable cold spells. Looking at some early insights into this coming Winter it does look promising up to now. But I think even with good background signals things can & do go wrong. Let's hope the pieces of the puzzle fit perfectly together this time round.

It was probably the 22nd Damian. I've just went through that year & we got close to -2C here on that morning. Actual reading -1.8C. So it's "only" been 7 years since I last had a September air frost & not 14.

I got down to 1C towards the end of the month but no air frost.

Back in September 2005 I recorded -1C twice on the 17th & 24th. Since then I've not had an air frost in September again, might have to check but don't think I have. Usually start getting them in October at some point. Some years later depends on a few things - air masses, little to no wind with clear sky by night etc.

You ended up with rain? Those uppers from the first beast in late Feb were about -15C & the one on 17th-18th March were about -12C. You were very unlucky.

Or people who get walked by the dog haha I've seen a fair few of them.

Wonderful fresh day today. Feels a bit Autumnal. Better than that humid muck.

Most of those you mention were exceptional March's with easterlys, very low dew points & a heavier amount of snow than I mentioned with drifts so the snow will stick around for longer. But pre 2009 and after 1996 we mostly got polar maritime flows & even with a decent fall it doesn't hang around very long in full sun from March. Around the Winter Solstice you don't need to rely on the dew point as much because the sun has very low influence. So snow from any direction is good at that time of year. It just happens we rarely get snow before January or even February these days. November & December 2010 was amazing but that's getting on for 10 years ago now.

I don't mind a seasonal Autumn with disturbed weather - severe gales & heavy rain as long as it doesn't carry on well into the Winter. Although I've known many March's that have had more snow than the Winter. But it's a little too late by then. What's the point in 6 inches of snow for it to all melt by mid day in the strengthening March sun? Then again snow is better than none. Nothing quite like snow at Christmas though. Feels much more festive.

Getting to the point now where sunrises aren't ridiculously early. Certainly the nights drawing in more quickly too. I'm getting the Autumn vibe although September tends to be a very boring month with little excitement. 2000 was pretty wet & Atlantic dominated but that was an ominous sign to what turned out to be the wettest Autumn on record. It rained every single day here from mid September until mid December - a record unmatched here since then. However the final part of December brought snow & a decent cold spell with the coldest temps for 5 years. Despite widespread floods it was meteorologically speaking an interesting latter part of the year.

Signs of cooler weather starting to envelop parts of Russia as we move into September. Some runs showing the first air frost's & a snow risk around the 12th.

17 years ago I worked in the desert part of Southern California and it was pretty much hot and sunny every day - so much so I hardly recall seeing clouds during the entire Summer! Temps were high 30s to mid 40s with night temps rarely getting below 28C. I got bored of it as I enjoy variety, the locals joked to me that you did not need a weather forecast at that time of year. Humidity was quite low as it was a desert but it doesn't offset the extremely high temperatures - so despite low humidity it's still baking hot. You needed air conditioning at home or it would have been like living in a green house.