Nick H

I saw some lovely photos of Gold Hill covered in snow last week. I love Dorset, one of my favourite English counties: great scenery and probably the best beaches in the entire country.

I disagree, partly because a "complete month's data" is essentially a random dataset anyway. Much was made of July 2006 being the hottest calendar month ever, which was true, and the press loved it of course, but few media outlets picked up on the fact that mid-Jul to mid-Aug 1995 was actually a hotter 31 day period. Using calendar months actually allows the media to distort weather stories, not put the "event" (to use a new, favourite buzzword) in a proper, historical context. Which is quite the opposite to what you are saying.

It is quite legitimate imo to say we have had a sub 3C month. A month is defined as "A period extending from a date in one calendar month to the corresponding date in the following month". or "A unit of time corresponding approximately to one cycle of the moon's phases, or about 30 days or 4 weeks." or "One of the 12 divisions of a year as determined by a calendar, especially the Gregorian calendar. Also called calendar month." Based on these definitions, those who say we haven't had a sub-3C month should stipulate that they are referring to a calendar month.

I'll give you car technology but people walked to school because they lived closer. I have to strongly disagree with you that commuting distance is a red herring, it's not. Many teachers (I'm not going to use that ghastly phrase "key workers") now live 15, 20, 25 even 30 miles from their school because of high house prices and although you may have had one or two coming in from such distances 45 years ago it is certainly nothing like the numbers now, where the teachers more than likely would have lived in the village. I may be getting on but my long term memory is not failing just yet....we definitely had 3 weeks off school in 1963!! Although I admit it may have been more to do with the oil freezing rather than kids being unable to walk 200 yards.

I heard many people moaning yesterday about what they perceived as unnecessary school closures. I think some have rose-tinted spectacles on. In 1963, my school was closed for three weeks. I'm sure I remember my daughter's school being closed in Feb 86 or Jan 87. SF recalls Jan 87 as being relatively smooth in London but I beg to differ. I can remember severe delays out of central London termini back then, especially from southern stations like Waterloo, Victoria, Charing Cross, and London Bridge. And of course Feb 1991 saw the "wrong type of snow". In fact, having worked in London for the last 30 years, the system usually fouls up whenever there is severe weather and that was as true in 1978-9 as it is today. So the notion that we used to cope with snow so much better in bygone eras is somewhat far-fetched imo. Another point I'd make is that people tend to live further away from both schools and workplaces nowadays, so the commute is longer and that inevitably causes more disruption when we have these "snowfall events". Do not forget also the increase in population, even in the last 20 years. 8 million people live in London and perhaps another 8 million commute from within 40 miles of Central London. What I would question is why there were no London buses running yesterday. Article re Jan 1987

I wouldn't describe a +0.3C anomaly as rather mild!

So in new money it went from 1.9°C at 6am to 21.5°C at 9am.

Not unless there's a major month-end adjustment to come. Manley is on 3.0C to the 27th. I think Luton Airport would be more representative, or even High Wycombe. Northolt, despite being a suburb of Greater London, certainly does get unusually cold at night (as well as unrepresentatively warm by day, especially in summer).

Forgive me, have we not just recorded a year below 10.0C? http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat

Chance of the 1st ice day in Central London since Jan 1997? Still -1.4°C at the London Weather Centre. If it has stayed belowed freezing by 1800hrs but then rises above before midnight, is that classed as an ice day? Still yet to get above -4°C here in the Chilterns (West Herts), with a beautiful hoar frost still holding and not a breath of wind. Certainly the coldest day I can remember here, possibly since 1991 or even 1987.

Yes - I am about 10 miles west of St Albans in the Chiltern Hills and I am currently sitting on -5°C. The Met Office sites at High Wycombe and Luton were on -5°C and -4°C respectively at 1200hrs.

It may well refer to the 1st half of the month. Either way, it is incredibly sloppy, disingenuous writing. As well as being written in an infantile style.

Looks like the BBC are at it as well.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7816005.stm Coldest December in over 30 years? Where on Earth's he got that from?

Benson had -10C at 7pm as well. We all know it's a frost hollow but it's still remarkable for southern England at that time of the evening.

The sunshine figures are odd... He's got 127% in the main box but nowhere in his regional table is the sunshine anomaly so high. Indeed, the Midlands shows 60%. You would have thought the Midlands would most approximate to CET-land, and that is the case for temp and rain. It certainly has felt a very sunny, if cold, start. I would have expected the 103% figure for the south east to have been a bit higher if anything. http://www.climate-uk.com/page2.html

-10°C at Pershore now. Manchester troughed at -7°C and Luton at -6°C. If these are assumed to be reasonable proxies for Stonyhurst and Rothamsted respectively that would give a CET minimum of -7.6°C. At 8am it would appear there was an air frost at every recording station in England.

Heathrow Airport, Middlesex Jan 1-15 1979 DateMax/Min 1st -3/-7 2nd 2/-6 3rd 2/-7 4th 1/-3 5th 0/-4 6th 1/-6 7th 8/-1 8th 9/6 9th 7/1 10th 5/1 11th 5/-2 12th 3/-3 13th 2/-6 14th 5/-6 15th 7/2 Shawbury, Salop. Jan 1-15 1979 1st 0/-7 2nd 3/-8 3rd 0/-11 4th 1/-5 5th 0/-7 6th 0/-8 7th 11/3 8th 7/2 9th 5/-2 10th 4/1 11th 4/-2 12th 2/-7 13th -3/-11 14th 2/-8 15th 5/1 Linton-on-Ouse, nr York, N Yorks. Jan 1-15 1979 1st NO RECORD AVAILABLE 2nd 0/-17 3rd -6/-11 4th -3/-11 5th -6/-12 6th NRA 7th NRA 8th 7/1 9th 4/0 10th 3/0 11th 3/-5 12th 2/-6 13th NRA 14th NRA 15th 2/1

I must confess I've never been to Pershore but it certainly seems to record some very low temps (e.g. -8°C a couple of nights ago). The Redhill frost hollow is caused by the M23 motorway embankment, as well as sandy soils, and is actually in South Nutfield and is not particuarly close to the town of Redhill itself. I know that because I used to live in South Nutfield - fortunately I managed to escape just as Edwina Currie moved in. Perhaps flatness is not necessarily as important as I thought it was: Topcliffe, and the Vale of York generally, seem to record low temps given the right set up.

I think it's fair to say that Pershore is a notable frost hollow, lying in the Vale of Evesham. As to the others, Rothamsted, near me, is at the foot of the Chilterns but not a frost pocket. Stonyhurst, on the Lancashire Plain, is I imagine too high up (if such a thing is possible) and certainly too flat to record very low temperatures.

At the moment I'd say it is unlikely to be colder than the 1st half of winter 1996/7. It would require a 1st half of January of around -1.0°C (I'm sure someone can be more exact). I can see Jan 1-10 coming in around -0.5°C and then possibly milder for the following 5 days. Anyway, it makes a (pleasant) surprise that the coldest part of the country in the next week will be the central southern and far south east of England.

-4.2°C in the Chilterns. Clear, starry and still and already the coldest night of the winter.

Which really goes back to the point that we don't get cold winters anymore.

Of course it is stupid to deny somewhere is a city if it has official City status. You may not agree with the decision to confer City status on somewhere, but it's still a City. Your logic is absurd. You say it is legitimate to deny that a City is a City because it doesn't "feel" like a City. But it's not OK to deny the Earth is round. Well, actually, to me, the Earth "feels" pretty flat. I walk the length of my garden and I don't fall off the surface of a sphere, do I? I keep walking, my garden "feels" pretty flat, therefore the Earth must be flat and it is perfectly acceptable to deny it. Anyway, I thought you were banging the gong for Leeds being the coldest?

I don't know the CET figures, but in the Chilterns the claim that this was the coldest start to winter in 30 years would not stand. These are the monthly averages up to the 10th of each December (and if the start of winter is the 1st 15 days of December, the claim looks even more dubious). 1980 2.4 1981 1.9 1987 2.6 1989 2.8 1990 2.5 2008 2.9 Does anyone have the CET figures apart from 1987? Of course, the coldest start is completely irrelevant....the starts to summers 1982, 1993, 1996, 2004 were the warmest I can find in my records and all those summers flattered to deceive somewhat.

There is an official definition whether you like it or not. As far as I am aware it is a matter for Parliament not the Church, although of course the Church has representation in the House of Lords which is a component of Parliament. A quick Wiki search will reveal all the cities of the UK. You can't come on here and say "that's not a city because I don't think it should be" or "this should be city but it isn't".