Fluoride In Your Tap Water

[PersianPaladin]

This website seems to think so: -

http://www.fluoridealert.org/

Should i be worried? Apparently, fluoride in water supplies can lead to brittle bones, lethargy and other problems: -

New evidence for potential serious harm from long-term fluoride ingestion.

1. Hydrofluorosilicic acid is recovered from the smokestack scrubbers during the production of phosphate fertilizer and sold to most of the major cities in North America, which use this industrial grade source of fluoride to fluoridate drinking water, rather than the more expensive pharmaceutical grade sodium fluoride salt. Fluorosilicates have never been tested for safety in humans. Furthermore, these industrial-grade chemicals are contaminated with trace amounts of heavy metals such as lead, arsenic and radium that accumulate in humans. Increased lead levels have been found in children living in fluoridated communities. Osteosarcoma (bone cancer) has been shown to be associated with radium in the drinking water. Long-term ingestion of these harmful elements should be avoided altogether.

2. Half of all ingested fluoride remains in the skeletal system and accumulates with age. Several recent epidemiological studies suggest that only a few years of fluoride ingestion from fluoridated water increases the risk for bone fracture. The relationship between the milder symptoms of bone fluorosis (joint pain and arthritic symptoms) and fluoride accumulation in humans has never been investigated. People unable to eliminate fluoride under normal conditions (kidney impairment) or people who ingest more than average amounts of water (athletes, diabetics) are more at risk to be affected by the toxic effects of fluoride accumulation.

3. There is a dose-dependent relationship between the prevalence/severity of dental fluorosis and fluoride ingestion. When dental decay rates were high, a certain amount of dental fluorosis was considered an acceptable `trade off' of providing an `optimum' dose of 1.0 ppm fluoride in the water. However, studies published in the 1980's and 1990's have shown that dental fluorosis has increased dramatically in North America. Infants and toddlers are especially at risk for dental fluorosis of the front teeth since it is during the first 3 years of life that the permanent front teeth are the most sensitive to the effects of fluoride. Children fed formula made with fluoridated tap water are at higher risk to develop dental fluorosis. A relatively small percentage of the children affected with dental fluorosis have the more severe kind that requires extensive restorative dental work to correct the damage. The long-term effect of fluoride accumulation on dentin colour and biomechanics is also unknown. Generalized dental fluorosis of all the permanent teeth indicates that the bone is a major source of the excess fluoride. The effect of this excess amount of fluoride in bone is unknown. Whether stress bone fractures occur more often in children with dental fluorosis has not been studied.

4. A lifetime of excessive fluoride ingestion will undoubtedly have detrimental effects on a number of biological systems in the body and it is illogical to assume that tooth enamel is the only tissue affected by low daily doses of fluoride ingestion. Fluoride activates G-protein and a number of cascade reactions in the cell. At high concentrations it is both mitogenic and genotoxic. Some published studies point to fluoride's interference with the reproductive system, the pineal gland and thyroid function. Fluoride is a proven carcinogen in humans exposed to high industrial levels. No study has yet been conducted to determine the level of fluoride that bone cells are exposed to when fluoride-rich bone is turned over. Thus, the issue of fluoride causing bone cancer cannot be dismissed as being a non-issue since carefully conducted animal and human cancer studies using the exact same chemicals added to our drinking water have not been carried out.

The issue of mass medication of an unapproved drug without the expressed informed consent of each individual must also be addressed. The dose of fluoride cannot be controlled. Fluoride as a drug has contaminated most processed foods and beverages throughout North America. Individuals who are susceptible to fluoride's harmful effects cannot avoid ingesting this drug. This presents a medico-legal and ethical dilemma and sets water fluoridation apart from vaccination as a public health measure where doses and distribution can be controlled. The rights of individuals to enjoy the freedom from involuntary fluoride medication certainly outweigh the right of society to enforce this public health measure, especially when the evidence of benefit is marginal at best.

Based on the points outlined briefly above, the evidence has convinced me that the benefits of water fluoridation no longer outweigh the risks. The money saved from halting water fluoridation programs can be more wisely spent on concentrated public health efforts to reduce dental decay in the populations that are still at risk and this will, at the same time, lower the incidence of the harmful side effects that a large segment of the general population is currently experiencing because of this outdated public health measure.

Sincerely,

Dr. Hardy Limeback BSc PhD (Biochemistry) DDS

Head, Preventive Dentistry

http://www.fluoridealert.org/limeback.htm

Fluoride water 'causes cancer'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...1504672,00.html

[crimsone]

I must admit, I'm against fluoridation of the water supply, or for that matter, any method of mass medication that I can't opt out of. Studies have shown that it's a trade off between peoples dental health, and an increasewd number of people with problems as a result of it, and possibly more problems than your average person would be comforatable with if they were (a), interested enough to find out, and ( , in posession of the full facts of the matter.

People need to be educated on these things, not herded like sheep, effectively removing the individuals choice over their own health.

[Gray-Wolf]

I do not like the Addition of Fluoride to tap water but most folk 'filter' their water these day(don't they?) . This generally means it stands in a jug , has any small particles filtered out of it and then stands around some more waiting to be used/drunk and whilst it sits it loses its dissolved gasses, could this just 'remove 'the Fluoride? .

Whilst living in a Spring water supplied cottage a few years back we planted 2 identical 12" pots of summer bedding plants. Both plants had the same amount of water and feed but one had tap water and one spring water. the spring water plants were 4 times the size of the tap plants by the end of summer as our tap water is chemically treated to make it potable. These chemicals are, in effect, a dilute bleach which killed the bacteria/microbes that live in symbiosis with the plant root hair fibers allowing nutrient uptake to happen, so the plants couldn't take up their feed so couldn't grow. Just think about your 'good guy' bacteria in your stomach and what drinking 'bleach' does to them and your own 'development (long term)

[PersianPaladin]

Some very interesting responses here. So your saying that fluoride can destroy the good bacteria in my stomach?

I don't have a filter and i'm not sure if that can remove the fluoride from the water. I am quite suspicious of Northumbrian Water as they put fluoridated water in north-west durham, tyne&wear and northumberland but not the south part of durham. Why?

Oh, here is an interesting site that tells you 'how to remove fluoride from drinking water': -

http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhow...ovefluoride.htm

Apparently, boiling water doesn't remove fluoride: -

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...12191621AAJ0OTy

[crimsone]

See this link PP...

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/NotoFluoridation.php

or this one...

http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/PDHA/fluoride/blunder.htm

You may wish to know that there's a bill in Parliament where the government would like to add a requirement in the Water Act for UK water companies to add fluoride to the water supply.

Finally, an article on what Dental Fluorosis is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis

[Gray-Wolf]

Some very interesting responses here. So your saying that fluoride can destroy the good bacteria in my stomach?

I don't have a filter and I'm not sure if that can remove the fluoride from the water. I am quite suspicious of Northumbrian Water as they put fluoridated water in north-west durham, tyne&wear and northumberland but not the south part of durham. Why?

Do you think that there is a link between personal health and class? Studies like those that throw up Scotland as Heart attack capital UK because of poor diet/nutrition because of poverty/poor education may be an issue if South Durham is the 'posh' end of things.

It is not the Fluoride in the water that is the problem with your internal micro Flora/fauna but that that is used to control 'the bad' micro flora/fauna which could contaminate your water and give you a bad case of the trots (in the least case!!!)

Other EU countries vary in methods of water purification, some rely solely on filtration and natural processes to ensure water quality (Greece for instance) and produce a much finer quality product than ourselves (IMO).

Chemical treatment is the cheapest way to deal with potability so the shareholders don't have to shell out to much of their divies to keep us safe. National owned water supplies tend to provide that that is best for the nation (again IMO).

[Red Raven]

i've been in long standing battle with my local water authority who have been adding fluoride to our water for several years now. Im very much against it's addition to drinking water on the grounds of it being compulsory medication and that it is linked to many negative side effects. I would urge anyone who is against it to write to their mp and their local press. www.faxyourmp.com is very good forthat.

[PersianPaladin]

i've been in long standing battle with my local water authority who have been adding fluoride to our water for several years now. Im very much against it's addition to drinking water on the grounds of it being compulsory medication and that it is linked to many negative side effects. I would urge anyone who is against it to write to their mp and their local press. www.faxyourmp.com is very good forthat.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but do some parts of Cumbria differ as to whether they have fluoridation or not?

I was told that in Lake District areas, the water supply is locally sourced and not fluoridated.

BTW - Crimsone, i have bookmarked your links. Cheers for that.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

I wonder if a website called flouride alert will give a balanced view?

[PersianPaladin]

I wonder if a website called flouride alert will give a balanced view?

Perhaps your right, but there is evidence amongst a range of websites and journals regarding the high risks and dangers of fluoridation. When compared with the pro-fluoridation sources (of whom we also need to question their motives) it can create a lot of controversy.

BTW - I faxed my MP: -

Dear Roberta Blackman-Woods,

I am very concerned about the continuing policy of water fluoridation

in the north-east. Northumbrian Water continues to add fluoride to the

areas of north-west durham, tyne&wear and northumberland and has done

so since the early 1970s. There have been numerous health studies

documenting the high risks of using fluoride in potable water supplies;

with the accumulation of fluoride likely to contribute to bone

brittleness, fluorosis, bone cancer and psychological problems. Some

example sources are here: -

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...1504672,00.html

http://www.fluoridealert.org/limeback.htm

I would like to request that the Local Health Authority (or relevant

government department involved) be lobbied to have this matter placed

back into public discussion. It is clearly a controversial issue and

evidence is mounting that shows that the risks outweigh the benefits of

fluoridation in our drinking water.

Thankyou for your time in helping me with this important matter.

[Dazza]

Our water tastes like its laced with bleech, that can't be good, or maybe its Mrs Dazza trying to poison me.

[PersianPaladin]

Our water tastes like its laced with bleech, that can't be good, or maybe its Mrs Dazza trying to poison me.

It tastes okay here, but i think that's because they don't put very much chloramine in it.

On the other hand; water that is over-distilled can also be of no help to the body.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

I don't agree with it either, but I'm just careful where I'd get my information from.

[Dazza]

It tastes okay here, but i think that's because they don't put very much chloramine in it.

Cutbacks, they'll stop at nothing to swindle their punters

[Red Raven]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but do some parts of Cumbria differ as to whether they have fluoridation or not?

I was told that in Lake District areas, the water supply is locally sourced and not fluoridated.

BTW - Crimsone, i have bookmarked your links. Cheers for that.

Its the Allerdale area (and possibly Carlisle) areas that are fluoridated. Anyone that gets their water from Crumock Water. This area of Cumbria does tend to be experimented on, i doubt it's not a coincidence that we have selafield and will be the first to loose our analogue tv signal this time next year.

[PersianPaladin]

Its the Allerdale area (and possibly Carlisle) areas that are fluoridated. Anyone that gets their water from Crumock Water. This area of Cumbria does tend to be experimented on, i doubt it's not a coincidence that we have selafield and will be the first to loose our analogue tv signal this time next year.

But why do they have to pick on Cumbria? Cumbria is arguably the poorest County in England, and they continue to either neglect it or 'experiment' with it.

[pottyprof]

Im concerned about the effect that fluoride has on drugs.... i have read a few papers from reliable medical reserch groups that show that certain antidepressants and also a large quantity of over the counter drugs are enhanced with the addition of fluoride.. I do have some saved to a disk and i think i saved the bookmarks when i reformatted a couple of years ago..

ill look them out and post them later when i find them..

Flouride in its own right is a mind control drug.. it makes you react to suggestion.. if i remember rightly it was used by the germans during WWII while doing scientific studies in one or two camps..

If this is the case then add tv media.. you seem to have the country that is America considering some other posts in this thread.. so maybe what i was reading was correct??

i'm unsure but it is a very disturbing subject..

edit.. this is just one example of enhancement caused by fluoride.. there are many more

http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/18/fluoride_drugs.htm

[Red Raven]

But why do they have to pick on Cumbria? Cumbria is arguably the poorest County in England, and they continue to either neglect it or 'experiment' with it.

Thats a good question. In a recent EC report west cumbria ranked lower in economic terms than the worst areas of the new eastern block members.

I assume the area is used as test bed due to the small population numbers, it's remoteness and the fact it is deprived.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Cumbria is arguably the poorest County in England

But then I moved here and it shot into 4th richest. Cornwall is actually the poorest I believe.

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

I wonder if a website called flouride alert will give a balanced view?

I hadnt thought of that...plus the fact that its a US site (although i'm not sure if it is relevent), that perhaps they flourinate their water differently to over here.

Just to give a possible example. The RDA for vitamins and minerals in the US, is different to the UK. Therefore, I would assume that Flouride (PPM) in the water is possible to be different as well.

This is quite possible due to different health requirements.

I'm fairly confident that if Flouride is used in water, it is used in levels that comply with UK/EU legislation, which has been proven to have no ill effects on Human Beans.

Thats just my take on it, otherwise, could you imagine if they hadnt tested the effects...big law suits!

[Red Raven]

A few links which may proove interesting to some. The last link is to a pdf file (quite large) of the independent scientific review.

http://www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk/fluoride.html

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30037--d.htm#58

http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/

http://www.fluoridedebate.com/

http://www.woodmed.com/Fluoride.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wear/content/articles...e_feature.shtml

http://www.actionpa.org/fluoride/NRC-2006.pdf

[PersianPaladin]

Thanks for the links Red Raven. Fascinating stuff.

I wonder why some areas of the UK are not fluoridated, and some are. As Gray-Wolf has already said, there could've initally been a correlation between socio-economic disadvantaged areas and fluoridated water supplies. In the late sixties and early seventies, Health Department advice was given to water companies (with Northumbrian Water as an example) to fluoridate their water as a response to high caries incidences in poorer areas of the UK. This caught on and the government decided to spread it to more advantaged areas from then on.

The question is; was the science flawed back then? Was it a mistake?

Another thing; if fluoride builds up in the body. Does it naturally flush itself out?

[crimsone]

I wonder why some areas of the UK are not fluoridated, and some are

Most of Europe doesn't add fluoride to the water. In the UK, water fluoridation has been an experiment. In fact, until recently, only Newcastle and Birminghams water supplies have been fluoridated. These two areas were picked out as deprived areas with a therefor high incidence of tooth decay. Since the fluoride was added in these areas, they've actually fared no better than the rest of the country in the dental decay stakes, but have had an increased incidence of dental fluoridosis - which might explain why dental decay rates haven't improved in the long term.

According to EU law, Fluoride in water is in fact a medication, and so it is not only realisically accurate, bt also legally accurate to consider fluoridation of the water supply to be a form of mass medication. The trouble is, There is absolutely no way of controling the dosage of this medication in any given person.

Dental fluoridosis is a particular risk for children and babies where the teeth haven't cut through yet. This is where fluoride does the most damage. Unfortunately, what do you make baby formula with? I rather think that might be tap water in most cases! The we have the fact that we already have fluoride in our toothpaste if we so desire, an in a number of other everyday products - it all adds up.

I don't know about Europe, but in the UK for certain, Fluoride is by law a poison of extreme toxicity. It is in fact listed as such in the Poisons Act....

Dr Simpson continued: "In any case, fluoride is classed as more toxic than lead - yet fluoridation involves allowing TWENTY TIMES as much fluoride in drinking water as the permitted level of lead.

This link is about the UK, and the current push for fluridation of the water supply, from which the above quote was taken... http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/658

Apparently, fluoridation of our water suply would be in complete contravention of EU law... The following link is from the green party, which I know some of you undoubtedly don't like (and some do), but what it does do is thoroughly give the other side of the argument in a UK context regarding the illegality of water fluoridation in the UK (PDF) ...

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/files/reports...TruthDecay2.pdf

I'm fairly confident that if Flouride is used in water, it is used in levels that comply with UK/EU legislation

Sadly, no. I wish I could be that trusting of government.

[flagpole]

I wish they'd put prozac in the water

[PersianPaladin]

I wish they'd put prozac in the water

Lol.

Why?