Wind Farms

[PersianPaladin]

I am against the ruination of natural beauty spots by wind farms. In fact, I propose that a wind farm be built in the middle of the north sea. You know, like how they have oil rigs planted there? I know it'll be outrageously expensive to plant, but the combined total of all the electricity from a continguous offshore wind farm circulating the whole of the UK could compensate for the initial construction-derived losses in the long run.

Edited August 31, 2006 by PersianPaladin

[crimsone]

I am against the ruination of natural beauty spots by wind farms. In fact, I propose that a wind farm be built in the middle of the north sea. You know, like how they have oil rigs planted there? I know it'll be outrageously expensive to plant, but the combined total of all the electricity from a continguous offshore wind farm circulating the whole of the UK could compensate for the losses in the long run.

I'm sad to say that it would be impossible due to very high winds and incredibly strong seas. I do agree with the sentiment though.

[PersianPaladin]

I'm sad to say that it would be impossible due to very high winds and incredibly strong seas. I do agree with the sentiment though.

Here is the suggestion for a European Offshore Supergrid: -

http://www.earthscan.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/641/v/1/sp/

THE EUROPEAN OFFSHORE SUPERGRID™

In common with other natural resources, wind has its own particular characteristics in terms of physics and energy conversion, the most notable features of which are its limitless supply and fluctuating availability.The challenge in harnessing this energy supply is to overcome the problem of variability by ensuring a firm source of power from wind.

In the vision offered here, the problem of variability is solved by exploiting the meteorological characteristics of the European weather system. At any given time, areas of high pressure are matched by areas of low pressure some hundreds of kilometres apart. In this way it can be said that regions negatively correlate with each other in terms of wind availability. In short, wind is always blowing somewhere.

By building wind farms in the seas around northern and western Europe, as well as areas of the Mediterranean, it would thus become possible to harness the wind whenever it is blowing and transform it into a stable source of power.This exploitation of the negative correlation between regional weather systems turns a perceived disadvantage of wind into a strength.

From a European Union perspective, the Supergrid™ offers a truly unique opportunity for joint action by the Member States in pursuit of a common good. The Supergrid can only function if it stretches geographically from the Baltic via the North Sea and the Atlantic Ocean to the Mediterranean.At any given point along this superhighway,the power generated is a common European, and not a national, asset.

This emphasizes the point that wind energy is a continental rather than national resource. It is the common property of all the Member States.

i agree that it should be a common property of all the member states, and not owned under the authority of Brussels.

Edited August 31, 2006 by PersianPaladin

[crimsone]

It's a noteworthy and reasonable concept. I do feel that the middle of the North sea is not the place for it though. The wave hights up there can get incredible, and are not unknown for their capacity to damage even oil rigs. There has even been a freak wave up there that once destroyed an oil rig. I large post stuck into the sea bed by comparison would stand little chance of long term survival.

On this link at the moment, as you can see, a 11.5 foot wave has been recorded in the last few hours. While this in itself is impressive, the key thing to note is that the wave profile was "very steep".

However, perhaps another region would be suitable for it.

Edited August 31, 2006 by crimsone

[PersianPaladin]

It's a noteworthy and reasonable concept. I do feel that the middle of the North sea is not the place for it though. The wave hights up there can get incredible, and are not unknown for their capacity to damage even oil rigs. There has even been a freak wave up there that once destroyed an oil rig. I large post stuck into the sea bed by comparison would stand little chance of long term survival.

However, perhaps another region would be suitable for it.

Depends what part of the north sea you're talking about. Not all of the regions are particularly windy. The southern and eastern north sea is a calmer place, but at the same time giving enough wind energy.

Also, perhaps Tension Leg Platforms could offer a solution for the rougher parts of the seas.

Edited August 31, 2006 by PersianPaladin

[crimsone]

Admittedly, it's location is halfway between Scotland and Norge... 58°18'00" N 00°60'00" E. I don't know enough about the North sea to be sure of the way the sea behaves in distinct areas though, but I do know that the North of Germany gets regular flooding - I'd have to find buoy data for the south of the sea to find out, but I don't have the time to look at it as I'd first have to search for a place to see the historic data from a particular buoy by the area it's in. Maybe NOAA will be that place - I may look later.

I must say though, this strand is kinda hijacking the thread. Perhaps you shouls ask a mod to split the strand out into it's own thread PP?

edited by tuggy ... split for you

Edited August 31, 2006 by tugmistress

[tugmistress]

didn't look at where you posted the coordinates for, but this is currently going off up here ...

Pictures

"The Beatrice Wind Farm is the flagship project for offshore wind energy development in Scotland, the UK and Europe. The €41 million project aims to install two demonstrator wind turbines adjacent to the Beatrice oil field, 25 km off the east coast

of Scotland.

Plans for the Beatrice demonstrator windfarm are being led by Talisman Energy and Scottish and Southern Energy, and we would be delighted to discuss these with you.

As the project progresses through approval and construction, we will be developing this website to provide a forum for information and discussion. In the meantime, please do download the Beatrice Windfarm Scoping Document – or, if you prefer, the non-technical summary which provides an overview of the project."

taken from Here.

[PersianPaladin]

didn't look at where you posted the coordinates for, but this is currently going off up here ...

Pictures

"The Beatrice Wind Farm is the flagship project for offshore wind energy development in Scotland, the UK and Europe. The €41 million project aims to install two demonstrator wind turbines adjacent to the Beatrice oil field, 25 km off the east coast

of Scotland.

Plans for the Beatrice demonstrator windfarm are being led by Talisman Energy and Scottish and Southern Energy, and we would be delighted to discuss these with you.

As the project progresses through approval and construction, we will be developing this website to provide a forum for information and discussion. In the meantime, please do download the Beatrice Windfarm Scoping Document – or, if you prefer, the non-technical summary which provides an overview of the project."

taken from Here.

Is that all? Just 2? Or is this just a start?

[tugmistress]

yes it is just two, it is a demonstrator set up that will last for 5 years (so they say) and the two turbines may end up being used after that period of time too.

if you click on my bottom link there is a list of FAQs on the bottom right of that page :unsure:

[multi cellular thunderstorm]

I cannot see the problem with wind turbines.

These are the two about 1 mile from me

http://www.kevanjonesmp.org.uk/main/galler...%2FIMG_0332.jpg

I think they look nice, much better than most things us humans have spoilt the countryside with. :unsure:

[Rustynailer]

£41M, thats a blatant rip off IMO, sombody is earning too much from a good cause there :unsure:

I cannot see the problem with wind turbines.

These are the two about 1 mile from me

http://www.kevanjonesmp.org.uk/main/galler...%2FIMG_0332.jpg

I think they look nice, much better than most things us humans have spoilt the countryside with.

Well said :blink:

Edited August 31, 2006 by Rustynailer

[VillagePlank]

PP, I disagree. If you want to generate energy you either have to build something or dig a great big hole. If you like the big hole's then so be it, just don't pretend that our energy needs are not without 'cost' whatever option you choose.

Edited August 31, 2006 by Wilson

[Thundery wintry showers]

I still don't see why we have to have wind turbines built in areas of scenic beauty when offshore turbines are a viable alternative. Okay, so certain spots (e.g. in the GIN corridor, in the middle of the North Sea) may not work, but, say, a few miles offshore is fine and probably more economical to go with it.

I can see the argument that it's "nimby" complaining about the onshore wind turbines "spoiling the scenery" et al, but it generates controversy and while some people don't see a problem with it, others do. Offshore turbines are much less controversial and, due to higher wind speeds offshore, are likely to generate more power (although this may be offset to an extent by having to carry the power generated over a larger distance to land).

The environment is more important than people's needs to have untouched natural scenery, but that doesn't mean that the latter "shouldn't come into it". Best is to look for ways to address the former in ways that minimise the impact on the latter.

[VillagePlank]

Best is to look for ways to address the former in ways that minimise the impact on the latter.

Educate people in the virtue's of not using 'standby,' turning lights off when they're not needed, and using a jumper would be a helpful start.

[multi cellular thunderstorm]

Educate people in the virtue's of not using 'standby,' turning lights off when they're not needed, and using a jumper would be a helpful start.

Yep, I agree people use central heating far too much. In our house it's only on about 4 hours a day in winter and never in summer. I even went the whole of last winter without heating in my bedroom, not to save the environment though, the radiator was jammed :unsure:

[shuggee]

I am against the ruination of natural beauty spots by wind farms.

I'm not. Would rather have hundreds of wind farms than a carbon polluting coal-fired powered station or a nuclear installation any day. We are blessed with thousands of sq kms of upland areas capable of supporting renewable energy - in areas that might be remote - but not necessarily of particular scenic value.

[multi cellular thunderstorm]

I think we should all have our own small wind turbines either in our gardens or on the roofs of our houses.

A couple of examples:

Seems a much better solution to me

[I can't believe it's not better]

I'm probably all for sticking these things out in the sea really. I've already noticed the interesting, novel appeal of wind turbines on hills wane. I find them quite distracting and a bit annoying now. There's something a bit perverted though about sticking wind energy machines in the sea, what with those waves and currents and stuff.

I wonder if they should be built taller, rather than bigger. After all the bottom part of the rotor on these large machines is not really so far from the ground,(well not relative to the top anyway) with poorer and slower air and since it's the bits closer to the edge that are doing a disproportionate amount of energy gathering (because they move through more air than parts nearer the centre and presumably more torque)...

Couldn't they be built much taller? Then maybe we wouldn't notice them so much.

[Somerset Squall]

I'm probably all for sticking these things out in the sea really. I've already noticed the interesting, novel appeal of wind turbines on hills wane. I find them quite distracting and a bit annoying now. There's something a bit perverted though about sticking wind energy machines in the sea, what with those waves and currents and stuff.

I wonder if they should be built taller, rather than bigger. After all the bottom part of the rotor on these large machines is not really so far from the ground,(well not relative to the top anyway) with poorer and slower air and since it's the bits closer to the edge that are doing a disproportionate amount of energy gathering (because they move through more air than parts nearer the centre and presumably more torque)...

Couldn't they be built much taller? Then maybe we wouldn't notice them so much.

But then surely you would have problems with the duribilty of the turbine? eg. the taller the weaker it is to withstand very strong winds.

I'm agree with Shuggee here, I'd much rather have wind turbines than ugly power stations. Personally, I don't think wind turbines are an eyesore, but then that's just me.

Edited August 31, 2006 by AtmosFear

[The PIT]

Sun Panels Turbines on houses but then you wouldn't need the national grid so much. Companies wouldn't like that as they'd lose revenue and control. Government wouldn't like probably becuase they'd lose some tax revenue as well.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I think some are missing the point- wind turbines in scenic areas might be better than nuclear power stations but that's not the comparison that's being made; it's wind turbines in scenic areas vs. putting them offshore. If there is an implicit assumption that either wind turbines are put in scenic areas or we will have to have nuclear power stations there instead, it's not as if an alternative hasn't been suggested!

In people's gardens could be an idea; some people have actually experimented with that idea.

[Rustynailer]

I think we should all have our own small wind turbines either in our gardens or on the roofs of our houses.

A couple of examples:

Seems a much better solution to me

i wonder how much energy £41millions worth of those scatterd across the country would generate?

IMO a much better option, one on each house

[JRMcLeod]

I have to agree...it all ties in with helping the environment!

Donald Trump is building a £500million golf complex up here 5 miles north of Aberdeen, he has got the planning permission for it even though the Golf Complex is slap in the middle of a Nature Reserve at Balmedie Beach...it includes a 5star hotel, championship links course, grass research centre and 200 homes ...at the same time as this an energy company are planning to built 300 huge wind turbines 5 miles offshore from Aberdeen, making it the energy and oil capital of europe, thats along with the £300million Hydrogen power station planned for Peterhead...if they get the go ahead, which i strongly believe they will the turbines will be barely visable and no noise at all from that range...i dont see the problem, its not as if we walk on water and willbe right next to them, how many of us actually care that much...we need to see the bigger picture in terms of our long term investment into energy production...it works elsewhere so it will work here, people just dont know enough about it so they think its a bad thing... , i urge this kind of thing because it will benefit our planet...not a huge amount yet but until an amazing alternative is found countries like the UK should lead the way and set an example so that other countries follow...

Edited August 31, 2006 by yeahbabyyeah

[WindWatcher]

I really like wind turbines, I feel they are majestic engineering sculptures of the 20th/21st Century. I have visited Tarifa on the Southern Atlantic tip of Spain many times as a windsurfer. That place is beautiful, and I feel the turbines are as much a part of the beauty as the landscape. It is just awesome to walk along the hillsides there with a stong Levante or Poiniente wind blowing and feel/hear the awesome power of the wind in this land of giants.

Most of my photos from our visits feature the turbines by choice, it really emphasises the nature of the location, something a photo of a hillside can't do, this is the town after all where people get wind madness from the insecent howling of the wind. Unfortunately the area has been ruined for visitors and windsurfers alike, not by the turbines but by the high rise hotels that block the winds!

I live within 10 miles of a power station, oil refinery and waste incinerator, I would far rather live within 1 mile of a wind farm. When I am in the garden I spend most of my time looking at the monstrosity that is my anemometer on a pole from the roof, would be even better to look at something that generates green energy... ok I am strange

There is still beauty in the most unlikely places:

Apologies for the quality of this photo, I can't find my originals... but there are over 50 turbines in this pic:

[Rustynailer]

When i first saw one, other than in a photo' i was astounded by how mesmerising, fascinating and "arty" they were, here are the first i saw for real, somewhere between Barrow and Workington on the North West coast, 1992. God i am soooooooooo pleased that we now have digital photography.