Should ''March'' become a winter month?

[Lettucing Gutted]

Because of Global Warming meaning longer summers and shorter winters in Britain as well as shorter transition seasons - In my opinion the seasons should be like this now:-

Spring

February, March

Summer

April, May, June, July, August, September, October

Autumn

November, December

Winter

January

The trouble with that Andy, is that the last third of March would then be a spring month.

Another words, March would be be both a winter and a spring month

Before Global Warming took over March was a transitional winter/spring month in my opinion. There was an old saying connected to March's cold first half and March's warm second half. "In like a lion. Out like a lamb".

Edited January 2, 2007 by Craig Evans

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

Quite simply, no.

Seasons are tranistional, where it starts of warmer/colder, and ends up on the other end of the scale.

And, probably more importantly, the seasons do not dictate the weather, in that as soon as one finishes, we can no longer get that seasons weather in the next.

[Stratos Ferric]

None of this is actually particuilarly novel or new debate. As I recall Hubert Lamb proposed five seasons in the British year: top of head he split autumn-winter three ways. However, as illustrated by the debate in this column, whatever carve up he made invariably had more exceptions than it did inclusions, underscoring Chris's point that is well made: delineation of the seasons in now way constrains actual weather.

[Mark Bayley]

Off topic a bit but hear is what i think

January-Febuary winter

March-middle of may spring

middle of may-September Summer

October-December Autum

I do think that winter will become shorter (weather terms) but much worse

e.g. beguining mid Jan- middle end of Feb cold and snowy. perhaps some wintery weather in the beguing of march or the middle of december depending on the conditions

summer and autum to become hotter and stommier

and spring to be warm and pleasent wich is actualy my second favorite tye of weather (snow being first)

21c-25c during the day 4c-9c during the night (not humid) :blush: Perfect

[jethro]

I'm sorry, but that's patently NOT true. Plants grow according to light AND temperature. The growth process is a complex chemical reaction and this is catalysed by temperature. Plants and animals respond to weather condtions NOT to the calendar; in the right conditions they will continue to flourish - pre-Christmas there was a news feature highlighting the continued availability of raspberries in Scotland.

If your argument were true then how would you explain the fact that most species have a longer growing season at sea level than they do at high altitude? There is no difference in light (in fact, at altitude, there will be more light); the only relevant difference will be temperature.

If memory serves me right the cut-off point for growth is 5C. Not hard to see why lawns like mine, which once upon a time didn't need cutting from December - March, now appear fairly ragged by mid January. Note - the annual progression of the sun has not changed. Also, I read a report recently suggesting that the measured growing season has lengthened by about 20 days in, I think, the last twenty years or so.

Sorry for the delay in replying but this is the first chance I've had since the holiday period.

SF< I believe you misunderstood me or perhaps placed too much emphasis where none was intended. My actual point was light AS MUCH as temps plays a part.

The discussion was about the unseasonal flowering of plants, the inference being that GW is shifting the the flowering times. This concerns me as it is yet another "fact" being heaped upon the pile of Incontrovertible Evidence when it simply is not true nor proven. On many occasions, you yourself have leapt upon other such stated facts albeit in a different sphere; and questioned their credibility. Horticulture is my sphere, therefore I question.

Your grass will continue to grow in mild autumnal/winter weather, what it will not do is flower and set seed. There is a world of difference between growth and flowering.

Climatic differences between latitudes&altitudes do alter the seasons but comparing Daffodils in bloom in the Scilly Isles to those in Aberdeen was not my point, nor is it valid science. Measuring seasonal data from one particular location year on year reveals the true picture.

Light is an important factor in plant growth, professional growers exploit this; one seasonal example being Poinsettias. In the wild they flower when day and night are equal in length, they are brought into flower early, by about three months by the application and exclusion of LIGHT, not an increase in temperature.

Raspberries in Scotland in October, reported in the press... Two points: Autumn fruiting raspberries bred by the Scots specifically for their climate and to exploit the greater market value when the glut of southern raspberries is over. Secondly; reported in the press... Piers Corbyn; need I say more.

[Bottesford]

Good point about jethro about plants & light. A certain illegal plant will flower when day length falls below 13 hrs ish. You can force them to flower in July/August by cutting daylight to them at each end of the day. 'Apparently' this is how it is done in the UK to allow them to flower under summer Sun (as opposed to October Sun) therefore making the flowers much 'sweeter'...

A change in temps will not change this!

[Norrance]

Before Global Warming took over March was a transitional winter/spring month in my opinion. There was an old saying connected to March's cold first half and March's warm second half. "In like a lion. Out like a lamb".

[SP1986]

I strongly disagree March is a Spring month, and apart from a few freak occurrences where there has been colder weather, March in my book belongs in the book of year round mild months

[West is Best]

I strongly disagree March is a Spring month, and apart from a few freak occurrences where there has been colder weather, March in my book belongs in the book of year round mild months

I agree Stephen. Temperature-wise March is closer to November with an average CET of 6.3C. The winter months have a CET of 5.1, 4.2 and 4.2 resepctively: a very different set of figures.

Of course, this doesn't mean one can't have interesting snow in spring just as one can have hail and rain in the summer, heatwaves in autumn and a myriad of other weather types throughout the year. But in terms of solar cycle and average temperatures March is spring.

If there's one thing as regular as the seasons though it's this topic.

[Stratos Ferric]

I agree Stephen. Temperature-wise March is closer to November with an average CET of 6.3C. The winter months have a CET of 5.1, 4.2 and 4.2 resepctively: a very different set of figures.

Of course, this doesn't mean one can't have interesting snow in spring just as one can have hail and rain in the summer, heatwaves in autumn and a myriad of other weather types throughout the year. But in terms of solar cycle and average temperatures March is spring.

If there's one thing as regular as the seasons though it's this topic.

Regular certainly, thoughnot as frequent as the autumn forecasts for a cold winter to come, and also the much vaunted US East Seabord blizzrds, which as we all know are a portent of things to come here in the Uk around 10-14 days later, allegedly. Then there's also the "pattern change"...

At least with the end of winter as we know it a SATSIGs mild dividend will become available, perhaps to be reinvested in managing the rampant overoptimism to be found in one or two places near Bexleyheath...

[Snowyowl9]

March should stay as a spring month but there is more chance of snow.

Before Global Warming took over March was a transitional winter/spring month in my opinion. There was an old saying connected to March's cold first half and March's warm second half. "In like a lion. Out like a lamb".

Does the saying not go on to say 'in like a lamb out like a lion'. My birthday is on the 27th and I have frequently seen snow on this day albeit not recently.

It`s both, as far as last March not sure how you would describe it. :lol:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/2006/...00120060301.png

Light snow showers with slight drifting on the 1st and cold at 2c max.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/2006/...00120060331.png

12c on the last day and breezy.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Snowyowl9

[Mondy]

Up here, Mrs Mondy has skied in March (Aonach Mor) and been to the same spot in September(in shorts and bikini top).

So, March has to be winter and September summer :lol:

Of course on Rockall it's always Winter.

[Norrance]

March should stay as a spring month but there is more chance of snow.

It`s both, as far as last March not sure how you would describe it.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/2006/...00120060301.png

Light snow showers with slight drifting on the 1st and cold at 2c max.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/2006/...00120060331.png

12c on the last day and breezy.

Last year was definately of the in with a lion version though the cold and snow peaked here in the middle of the Month with the 12th having our deepest snowfall of the Winter.[or should that be Spring?]

As far as Winter months go I have to go with December as though it is not always cold and snowy it is nearly always dark and gloomy, the odd bright frosty day aside.

[cheeky_monkey]

no way can you class march as a winter month....march has only managed to have a colder cet than feb once in the last 40 yrs..even taking into account we have had some very mild febs in the last twenty of those years...and there have been many occurances of 70f plus days being recorded with frequency in march too...the fact that the number of cold marchs has dimished quite markedly in the last two decades...confirming its position as a spring month!

[johnholmes]

I know its against the standard practice for winter and I preach often enough on the subject of 'official winter'.

However as December has definitely gone AWOL, at least in terms of snow, and January looks like doing the same, maybe we should consider calling December autumn then the weather god may alter his schedule?

John

[Rollo]

With the British climate as it is John March falls somewhere in between both seasons, as you will know from long experience it is possible to get days of 21c and just as easy to get an ice day . Bearing that in mind I prefer to call it both a late winter month and an early spring month ( hows that for fence sitting).

[blitzen]

Hello John/Rollo, I think we may have a better idea once the rest of this winter unfolds. It does look like the seasons have shifted backwards by about three to four weeks doesn't it!

[Angel15]

Hello John/Rollo, I think we may have a better idea once the rest of this winter unfolds. It does look like the seasons have shifted backwards by about three to four weeks doesn't it!

I think that is a pretty correct assessment so far - seems that way to me as well - I am just dreading having another hot summer - I mean it is great when you are off at home, but travelling to work on the trains, etc - total nightmare!!! They should make air conditioned suits! (or underwear!) Sorry - a bit off topic, but yes it does seem quite unseasonal at the mo.

[Weather-history]

If this weather pattern keeps up then March 2007 could be more a "winter" month than the winter months themselves.

It has happened in the past, the best example is probably March 1883, that had a CET of 1.9, 2.0C colder than the coldest month of the winter, December with 3.9

Edited January 9, 2007 by Mr_Data

[West is Best]

Hello John/Rollo, I think we may have a better idea once the rest of this winter unfolds. It does look like the seasons have shifted backwards by about three to four weeks doesn't it!

I think it's time to scotch this. This thread only exists because we've had a couple of cold snaps late in the season. But at the end of the day you cannot alter the change in daylight, and as the sun 'rises' in the sky and stays there longer so the earth warms more. It's kicking against the goads to pretend that March is winter. It isn't, and never will be for as long as the earth follows it's current orbit around the sun with it's present tilt. Period. When you consider that the majority of days in March have date records of 20C+ it puts this in perspective.

Edited January 9, 2007 by West is Best

[M'Lady]

With the British climate as it is John March falls somewhere in between both seasons, as you will know from long experience it is possible to get days of 21c and just as easy to get an ice day . Bearing that in mind I prefer to call it both a late winter month and an early spring month ( hows that for fence sitting).

Nicely done darling, may I perch next to you?

[West is Best]

When I was growing up March was generally considered a winter month by my parents and other older people. Of course, the sun strength means that warmer days than can be recorded in Nov - Feb are possible, but almost certainly, statistically, wintry conditions are more likely in the first half of March than they are in the first half of December.

This is true Ian, and I agree that it is a month that can have huge swings so that it can have both wintry and summery weather. However, a month in which all but a few days have recorded 20C at some time or other, and which averages 6.3C in the CET, cannot in my opinion be considered a winter month. It has both summery and wintry potential ... which is probably why it is spring.

[charlton north-downs]

Hi Folks

When is the last time we have a had any descent snow over most of the Uk, I cannot remember must 1985 although 1987 was fantastic for the South East .On a selfish note I look forward to late Feb/March as Biggin Hill and the North Downs over 600ft get quite a few snow events more than any time in January for the last 10 winters, and because snow which settles lowers the temps we can have Ice days in March where as places a lot lower can be 4c warmer with rain. Roll on March maybe the only month that almost every year brings some snow to higher ground .Last time a March without snow was 1998/99.

[Lettucing Gutted]

With the British climate as it is John March falls somewhere in between both seasons, as you will know from long experience it is possible to get days of 21c and just as easy to get an ice day . Bearing that in mind I prefer to call it both a late winter month and an early spring month ( hows that for fence sitting).

That is a great seasonal description for March.

I think that is a pretty correct assessment so far - seems that way to me as well - I am just dreading having another hot summer - I mean it is great when you are off at home, but travelling to work on the trains, etc - total nightmare!!! They should make air conditioned suits! (or underwear!) Sorry - a bit off topic, but yes it does seem quite unseasonal at the mo.

I am dreading another hot summer as well.

Edited January 12, 2007 by Craig Evans

[Bottesford]

Someone mention hot summer? Roll on summer!

Hopefully it'll be July all over again from June-September... Actually that'd be a bit too much I expect!

Still, some reliably good weather for summer would be grand. If winters no longer deliver- at least summer does!