Global Cooling

[jethro]

Assassination according to absence of qualification and research background, yes. But character assassination? where?

Many times, but I was actually debating with Dev on this point as he has been all too fond of doing this, and yet now is crying wolf.

Spencer, poor misguided fool? Lol. Since when has questioning science on a scientific basis been misguided? Doesn't this again come down to supporting the methods of those whose work you agree with?

If I said Mann is a poor misguided fool, would this be more acceptable? Isn't this just applying a "politically correct" filter to insults? A spade's a spade in my world.

Sorry, Jethro's I'm not prepared to accept I slate work 'primarily upon character assassination' without you providing several examples of that. Indeed without said examples it's you attacking my character I'm afraid.

When I get the time, I'll trawl back through the threads. This isn't an effort to retract or escape, it's my sons' birthday and I have a birthday tea to cook.

[Iceberg]

Off you should go Jethro as your son's Birthday is far far more important than anything on here. Although going on the my Childrens last party I had at home 5 mins peace and quiet on NetW was bliss.

But I do think there is a difference between somebody being a fool (which we all are at times or over certain things) and somebody being a fraud or fiddling which tbh only corrupt people do.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Iceberg

[Devonian]

When I get the time, I'll trawl back through the threads. This isn't an effort to retract or escape, it's my sons' birthday and I have a birthday tea to cook.

Have fun!

To defend myself, I said this in a thread in 2007 "Ok, I'll merely report and highlight that Roy Spencer (of satellite temperature fame) is a christian and supporter of 'intelligent design', that Ross McKitrick (who's worked closely with famed sceptic Steve McIntyre) also is, and that Richard Countney (also a long time much published sceptic) is a methodist.

I'll then ask - So bleeding what?! "

So, I've actually defended religious scientists!

[SP1986]

This thread is absolutely fascinating to read from a psychological point of view. It pretty much proves two things.. man will never ever agree on anything whilst let free to do so. Also we are doomed as a race because we do not have the intelligence nor the social skills to collaborate and fix a problem as a team.

[laserguy]

Also we are doomed as a race because we do not have the intelligence nor the social skills to collaborate and fix a problem as a team.

Probably true! But in all seriousness I have to ask,specifically where 'AGW' is concerned: "what problem"? How such a monster has grown out of absolutely nothing,of which it is still entirely composed of, is just mindblowing.

LG,waiting patiently for the inevitable,ever-nearing cold slaughter of the ethereal beast. Licking lips already...

[SP1986]

Probably true! But in all seriousness I have to ask,specifically where 'AGW' is concerned: "what problem"? How such a monster has grown out of absolutely nothing,of which it is still entirely composed of, is just mindblowing.

LG,waiting patiently for the inevitable,ever-nearing cold slaughter of the ethereal beast. Licking lips already...

Indeed, and perhaps its time to find a solution that our species agree with in some way or other (whether that be cooling and warming) - I'm personally not concerned what the answer is, but regardless I think the sensible thing is for humans to think on a natural scale and not on a economic scale (for once), unfortunately unless money is excluded from mans future survival plans then we are doomed.

Perhaps a great ice age is what we need to a) reduce the population, and to change how we think about life as a species.

If there was an asteroid due to hit Earth in 5 months would we solve the problem? In my opinion no there would too much arguing, money problems and egos in the governmental sectors to ensure our safety..

Funnily enough as pessimistic as this sounds, the sooner the majority of humans are wiped off the Earth the better (me included, but I would be happy to try and survive!)

[osmposm]

......the sooner the majority of humans are wiped off the Earth the better (me included, but I would be happy to try and survive!)

Ah, there (I fear) speaks a man who cannot - or prefers not to - value the extraordinary achievements of our species. Stephen, are you never moved by, do you never rejoice in the beauty of Salisbury Cathedral, of Sissinghurst Garden, of a da Vinci painting, of a Michelangelo sculpture, of a Beethoven symphony - even a great movie or contemporary song? Are these all to be swept away without a moment's regret....because the darker, more selfish side of us threatens (and it constantly does) the well-being and natural beauty of our planet? Seek out the good and beautiful things, the finer, more co-operative behaviour (there is lots of it). Enjoy the theatre that flourishes through a combination of a tiny cut of your taxes and the passion of the laughably under-paid people who work in it. Be glad that Yellowstone is protected and cherished for ever; that the immeasurably cleaner River Tyne once more has a healthy run of salmon (and British salmon anglers are prepared to return an ever higher percentage of their catch to help ensure a better future for the species).

There are countless things to admire and cherish in humanity. The selfish braggards may shout louder, but for every one of them there is another who is quietly trying to do the right thing. And many, many people who choose to work at things that they are passionate about - or that they just think matter - despite knowing that they can earn more doing something else. Find out a little about what a ballet dancer has to do to his or her body every day of their life just to be a small part of the final, enthralling achievement. Or just watch 'Secret Millionaire' and see someone - yes, all right, perhaps a bit too publicly - trying to give a little bit back.....and see the faces and tears of those astoundingly committed and hard-working people that are helped to accomplish some of the things they could only dream of.

Of course for every fine deed I come up with, you can quote an equal or greater horror. But surely the key is to make the most of, to celebrate the good things? And thereby, perhaps, raise the hope, the possibility that we can ease the odds very slightly towards the thoughtful, the connected, the fine and the constructive, and away from the mindless, the selfish, the foul and the destructive.

Just maybe.....but worth a shot, I'd have thought, before sentencing most of us, good and bad, to oblivion. Or perhaps it's only the bad 'uns you want to get rid of.........?!

Ossie

EDIT: Whoops....this is supposed to be the 'Global Cooling' thread, isn't it? My apologies, got a bit carried away there......

Edited March 25, 2009 by osmposm

[Gray-Wolf]

EDIT: Whoops....this is supposed to be the 'Global Cooling' thread, isn't it? My apologies, got a bit carried away there......

I don't care how 'misplaced' your post is it should speak loudly to many of us on here.

Maybe we all need a Wendy to sew our souls back on (and not our 'shadow') as the loss, in the first world, of spirituality appears (to me) to condemn many.

If folk knew the cost of following body and mind alone then maybe they would choose to act differently in their day to day living?

I too would hope that man's more noble spirit wins through in the end

[weather eater]

I don't care how 'misplaced' your post is it should speak loudly to many of us on here.

Maybe we all need a Wendy to sew our souls back on (and not our 'shadow') as the loss, in the first world, of spirituality appears (to me) to condemn many.

If folk knew the cost of following body and mind alone then maybe they would choose to act differently in their day to day living?

I too would hope that man's more noble spirit wins through in the end

Unfortunately GW man does not have a noble spirit at least not as a race, human beings to use a teenagers terminology are rather to random and are motivated by many different ideologies, however the need to survive is one of our stronger traits, once that survival is threatened by a clear enemy then we can act very quickly, unfortunately judging by the debate on this thread AGW is not being recognised as that clear enemy. I've not read all this thread but I was not surprised to read that some of the Global warming sceptics were believers in intelligent design, I wonder who designed the intelligent designer, ho hum.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Although I reject the idea of God creating the world in 6 days (or over thousands of years compressed into 6 days in the Bible, as some say) I don't completely dismiss the concept of intelligent design- at least below a certain level. I do, though, dismiss the often-related idea of everything being pre-ordained (for example, you could punch someone in the face and then say "everything happens for a reason" to justify it)

The problem is, we do have a clear enemy, namely non-sustainable use of our resources. AGW is only one of many probable negative consequences, and some of the others are even more probable, if not certain, to happen.

[weather eater]

Although I reject the idea of God creating the world in 6 days (or over thousands of years compressed into 6 days in the Bible, as some say) I don't completely dismiss the concept of intelligent design- at least below a certain level. I do, though, dismiss the often-related idea of everything being pre-ordained (for example, you could punch someone in the face and then say "everything happens for a reason" to justify it)

The problem is, we do have a clear enemy, namely non-sustainable use of our resources. AGW is only one of many probable negative consequences, and some of the others are even more probable, if not certain, to happen.

Hi TWS we should save our dissection of religion for another place or by PM as we both have strong views on this. What I meant of course was getting people to see what’s plain in front of their faces, the problem being that take a hundred people and you get different perceptions of the evidence. Some people in regards non-sustainable resources don’t care about the future as long as they are doing OK now.

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

I see that globally March was out of the top ten and the coolest since 2000. I think it will be interesting to continue to monitor the global anomaly this year. Anyone have April's data yet?

BFTP

[Iceberg]

March globally was the 11th warmest on record, only MSU have reported April yet which has come out as the 11th.

Forgot to add that using MSU since it's the only one out, both March and April this year have been warmer than last year.

[Alex95]

I see that globally March was out of the top ten and the coolest since 2000. I think it will be interesting to continue to monitor the global anomaly this year. Anyone have April's data yet?

BFTP

If it wasn't in the top 10 coolest since 2000 I'd be pretty worried!!! :lol:

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

If it wasn't in the top 10 coolest since 2000 I'd be pretty worried!!!

Lol.

Iceberg, thanks for that. Will be interesting to see the others when they come out. Still not bad with no La Nina to support the cooler temps. I think this year will be interesting as an El Nino for Autumn looks very much on the cards [could be the short lived one though as per GWO].

BFTP

Edited May 8, 2009 by BLAST FROM THE PAST

[Iceberg]

There has been a La Nina in principle if not absolute terms with ENSO below -0.5 for the last 4 months. It's only recently come back to positive (i.e the last week), we know that there is a 3 month lag between ENSO state and current temps so I wouldn't expect temps globally to start to recover until May or June.

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

I see that globally March was out of the top ten and the coolest since 2000. I think it will be interesting to continue to monitor the global anomaly this year. Anyone have April's data yet?

BFTP

April 2009 Global Temperature Update: +0.09 deg. C

May 5th, 2009 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.

YR MON GLOBE NH SH TROPICS

2009 1 0.304 0.443 0.165 -0.036

2009 2 0.347 0.678 0.016 0.051

2009 3 0.206 0.310 0.103 -0.149

2009 4 0.091 0.126 0.055 -0.010

April not warming.......so trend from peak continues on course IMO and so interest to watch this year unfold continues.

BFTP

[karyo]

April 2009 Global Temperature Update: +0.09 deg. C

May 5th, 2009 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.

YR MON GLOBE NH SH TROPICS

2009 1 0.304 0.443 0.165 -0.036

2009 2 0.347 0.678 0.016 0.051

2009 3 0.206 0.310 0.103 -0.149

2009 4 0.091 0.126 0.055 -0.010

April not warming.......so trend from peak continues on course IMO and so interest to watch this year unfold continues.

BFTP

Yes, let's see whether we have a developing trend. It will be more interesting to see what will happen later in the year when the El Nino is expected to take over.

Karyo

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

Yes, let's see whether we have a developing trend. It will be more interesting to see what will happen later in the year when the El Nino is expected to take over.

Karyo

Here's the graph I'm following

BFTP

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

There have been some expectations expressed about the relative strength of an El nino. Some of these might well be overstated.

Meanwhile the portents of SC24 (and onwards) continue to point to more future negative natural feedback.

Edited May 12, 2009 by North Sea Snow Convection

[Thundery wintry showers]

It will be interesting to see both how strong the El Nino turns out, and how global temperatures respond in a few months' time. If the El Nino is strong then anything short of near-record warmth will be quite promising. The critical test of whether global temperatures have really stabilised would be a 1998-style El Nino, but that remains very much at the high end of the range of possible outcomes at the moment.

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

It will be interesting to see both how strong the El Nino turns out, and how global temperatures respond in a few months' time. If the El Nino is strong then anything short of near-record warmth will be quite promising. The critical test of whether global temperatures have really stabilised would be a 1998-style El Nino, but that remains very much at the high end of the range of possible outcomes at the moment.

Yes a fascinating year potentially coming up.

BFTP

Edited May 12, 2009 by BLAST FROM THE PAST

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

There's a lot of cold up north still...CATLIN team give in...too cold and too much ice!!!!!

BFTP

[laserguy]

There's a lot of cold up north still...CATLIN team give in...too cold and too much ice!!!!!

BFTP

Caused by AGW which we must tackle,natch.

[Iceberg]

Wow why bother saying that the Catlin study left the ice because it was breaking up too much(The real reason), when you don't have to....

Also don't mention the fact that all they found was first year ice on there entire route which was thinner than expected.