Politics And AGW/GW

[HighPressure]

Not quite political but in the absence of anywhere else to put it:

You gotta love this Tesco promotion of turning lights into flights

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/ethi...ights-greenwash

Edited April 11, 2009 by HighPressure

[laserguy]

Not quite political but in the absence of anywhere else to put it:

You gotta love this Tesco promotion of turning lights into flights

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/ethi...ights-greenwash

All aboard the sickly green gravy train. Puts me in mind of someone I know who has a weight problem but thinks everything will balance out and restore karma (or whatever) by scoffing the occasional lettuce. As for lights,every one in chez LG is an energy saving one except for the two in the fridge and oven. Not because of a desire to curb our carbon footprint mind,but because they do a jolly good job of keeping the 'leccy bill down. Oh,and Morrisons had a promo a while back where you could buy one for 49p,or five for 50p. Get your head round that one. I bought loads. Great - everyones a winner. Aren't they a bit tricky to dispose of if they go pop,though?

[LadyPakal]

It's because of the mercury in them:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7172662.stm

[laserguy]

It's because of the mercury in them:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7172662.stm

Thanks. We'll all end up as 'mad as hatters' (or the AGW bunch ) with all that mercury sloshing around.

[HighPressure]

It's because of the mercury in them:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7172662.stm

So we are replacing that terrible Co2 stuff with nice environmentally friendly Mercury and 60 free airmailes presumably the aircraft will be powered by Cadmium batteries :lol:

Edited April 12, 2009 by HighPressure

[laserguy]

So we are replacing that terrible Co2 stuff with nice environmentally friendly Mercury and 60 free airmailes presumably the aircraft will be powered by Cadmium batteries :lol:

Yup - the Enviro types have gone heavy already on that insanity-inducing mercury. We'll all fall victim as it builds up around us. If CO2 had emotions I could cry for the injustice it is suffering.

[MR EXTREMES]

i was just reading about a lower hurricaine season this year only 6 likely.

but the intresting part came when is was suggested that the tropical alantic has cooled unusualy.

(along with an unusual cooling of tropical Atlantic sea surface temperatures it observed in recent months)

i just for some reason found this part rather intresting.

im sure this sort of thing does happen but could this be the start of a new trend after all if the tropics get cooler surely this inturn would mean our warm ocean source wont be as mild cooling us down which i strongly feel is going to happen anyway regardless of ocean converyor.

[laserguy]

Yup - the Enviro types have gone heavy already on that insanity-inducing mercury. We'll all fall victim as it builds up around us. If CO2 had emotions I could cry for the injustice it is suffering.

Just as I was saying....

http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2009/0...-in-charge.html

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Yup - the Enviro types have gone heavy already on that insanity-inducing mercury. We'll all fall victim as it builds up around us. If CO2 had emotions I could cry for the injustice it is suffering.

lol!

Ah well, if Holdren gets his way with his particle shoot at least it won't ever be mild

Edited April 13, 2009 by North Sea Snow Convection

[Devonian]

Just as I was saying....

http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2009/0...-in-charge.html

Alan Caruba

Has it really come to pass that you have to quote a far right wing, paranoid conspiracy theorists who see Marxists everywhere?

[Methuselah]

Alan Caruba

Has it really come to pass that you have to quote a far right wing, paranoid conspiracy theorists who see Marxists everywhere?

Dev, I think you've got to the heart of the issue!

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Alan Caruba

Has it really come to pass that you have to quote a far right wing, paranoid conspiracy theorists who see Marxists everywhere?

Of what calibre exactly are the likes of Hansen and Gore!

[Methuselah]

Of what calibre exactly are the likes of Hansen and Gore!

Are they Marxists!

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Are they Marxists!

I wasn't actually putting them in any particular pidgeon-hole. But watching Gore speak, for eg, is like watching an old video of a Tony Blair presentation. Plausible, yet smarmy and superficial in style all of which masks the true substance.

[laserguy]

Alan Caruba

Has it really come to pass that you have to quote a far right wing, paranoid conspiracy theorists who see Marxists everywhere?

Unfortunately,he's absolutely right whatever label is attached. Hansen? Gore? !!!

Talking 'bout conspiracies... maybe this ploy of shooting particulates into the atmos' to cool things down is a plan to allow the proliferation of only Monsanto's genetically modified crops which can withstand severe cold. Western world saved,population of third-world nations decimated as their untinkered with strains flounder and die. Job done. Or maybe today my imagination is just running amok?

[Devonian]

Unfortunately,he's absolutely right whatever label is attached. Hansen? Gore? !!!

Talking 'bout conspiracies... maybe this ploy of shooting particulates into the atmos' to cool things down is a plan to allow the proliferation of only Monsanto's genetically modified crops which can withstand severe cold. Western world saved,population of third-world nations decimated as their untinkered with strains flounder and die. Job done. Or maybe today my imagination is just running amok?

A just amazing post!

Caruba works for the pesticide industry, including defending Monsanto, and yet somehow you seem to be able to support him and thus both attack (above) and support the pesticide industry at the same time

[laserguy]

A just amazing post!

Caruba works for the pesticide industry, including defending Monsanto, and yet somehow you seem to be able to support him and thus both attack (above) and support the pesticide industry at the same time

You're right Dev. I think I need a holiday asap. Today doesn't count,for some reason I'm lumbered with everyone else's kids!

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

You're right Dev. I think I need a holiday asap. Today doesn't count,for some reason I'm lumbered with everyone else's kids!

Do think Gore and Hansen need a holiday as well? Somewhere permanent perhaps

Sorry, B/H cheekiness creeping in

Edited April 13, 2009 by North Sea Snow Convection

[Methuselah]

I wasn't actually putting them in any particular pidgeon-hole. But watching Gore speak, for eg, is like watching an old video of a Tony Blair presentation. Plausible, yet smarmy and superficial in style all of which masks the true substance.

Show me a politician who isn't smarmy and superficial??? Michael Howard perhaps?

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Show me a politician who isn't smarmy and superficial??? Michael Howard perhaps?

I would certainly agree that M Howard is not a good example to follow!

Some politicians stand out more than others. The Gore/Blair comparision still stands regardless (IMO)

[Thundery wintry showers]

To illustrate the quality of arguments on here, and highlight some gaping flaws in some of the more hardcore "sceptic" arguments, take a look at this ficticious article I came up with:

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Gaping holes exist on both sides of the 'lunatic fringes'. But those fringes exist in the political and scientific blog worlds that members provides links for on these threads. Therefore the sourcors of the linked information should not be confused with the originators of that linked information

No sensible sceptic reasoning eschews that fringe type - and, IMO anyway that includes all the main 'sceptic' contributors that frequent these threads.

The type of repeated parody provided here is less and less seen as there is increasing proper 'ammunition' (for want of a better word) to counter AGW theory than to have to resort to those sort of alleged methods anyway.

The production of such parodies becomes part of the circular roundabout in itself in the sense that it inevitably follows that the retort to it, is that the same alleged empty reasoning and impotent mud throwing exists on both lesser fringes of the opposite divides. Again, that operate outside the remit of these threads

Sometimes some of what may appear to constitute mud throwing is actually just irony and sarcasm which are merely reflections and symptoms of the boredom and frustration of the circular 'yes it is AGW', 'no it isn't' debate itself.

There are one or two posters on here I have noticed who are often tagged with the (equally predictable) catchphrase of using a strawman argument. They actually have a very reasoned and intelligent point of view I think, which is sadly overlooked, but the humour and and irony they sometimes employ which are misrepresented in terms of an 'AGW doesn't exist because it doesn't' argument (which TWS is fond of repeating very regularly) are simply part of the frustration at the intransigence, narrow thinking and arrogance that pervades areas of AGW'ism.

As said, creatures of both sides can display arrogant or dogmatic traits but there is no justification for the sort of 'strawman' parody to be aimed solely at those who do not subscribe to AGW. Empty retorts and rhetoric work equivocally at the fringe excesses IMO.

Edited April 14, 2009 by North Sea Snow Convection

[Methuselah]

There are one or two posters on here I have noticed who are often tagged with the (equally predictable) catchphrase of using a strawman argument. They actually have a very reasoned and intelligent point of view I think, which is sadly overlooked, but the humour and and irony they sometimes employ which are misrepresented in terms of an 'AGW doesn't exist because it doesn't' argument (which TWS is fond of repeating very regularly) are simply part of the frustration at the intransigence, narrow thinking and arrogance that pervades areas of AGW'ism.

Or...the frustration of not having anything all that credible to back up one's dislike of one particular theory?

Creationism as Christendom's feeble answer to Evolution by Natural Selection comes to mind here: there's appears to be a direct correlation between the 'theory's' lack of worth and its adherents' desperation to make others believe in it??

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Or...the frustration of not having anything all that credible to back up one's dislike of one particular theory?

:unsure:

Actually no - that is the least of my worries

[Thundery wintry showers]

I have nothing against people coming up with well-reasoned criticism of the AGW theory and have actually had some decent discussions with sceptics who have offered some good points. Captain Bobski was a good recent example.

But if you look at the various articles posted by the likes of Noggin and Laserguy I think you'll find that a large percentage of them consists of similar arguments to what I presented in that parody.

I'm afraid Tamara is wrong about the contributors on these threads- some seem to work backwards from the premise that AGW doesn't exist and fit evidence around it, and actually support the kind of nonsense written in those articles purely because it yields that sought-after conclusion, namely "AGW doesn't exist".