Winter 08/09 Review

[Thundery wintry showers]

Good point. In Cleadon the temperature on 30 November reached only 1.1C, making it the 2nd coldest day of the entire 2008/09 season, despite plenty of sunshine. The coldest day was the 31st December with a max of just 0.5C.

[GRHinPorts]

This is the first winter in 10 years of gardening that I have lost some Dahlias that were left to overwinter in the ground and/or in pots. Probably as a result of some of those -10 degrees days in January.

[Bristawl Si]

Compared to the winters of the past 15 years it was a good winter for BTL, in terms of cool/cold temps, snow and frost. Although the snow was really confined to the eventful 1st week of feb.

Compared to some of the winters during 78 - 87 period, the one thing missing was below freezing daytime temps for periods of days.

To me it felt like a 'typical' winter from my childhood (i'm 47 by the way); cold periods, a few snowfalls and milder periods; although it must be said that the v.mild weeks (say +12C and above) seen in recent winters did not occur.

The stand out fact, for me, was that we had cold weather for long periods from Nov thru to mid-Feb, albeit not the real bone-crunching temps seen at times during 78-87 period.

The tantilising Q for me is: Does the winter of 08/09 mean the start of a series of colder, snowier winters (compared to last 15 years) over the next few years? :winky:

[Cheese Rice]

Compared to the winters of the past 15 years it was a good winter for BTL, in terms of cool/cold temps, snow and frost. Although the snow was really confined to the eventful 1st week of feb.

Compared to some of the winters during 78 - 87 period, the one thing missing was below freezing daytime temps for periods of days.

To me it felt like a 'typical' winter from my childhood (i'm 47 by the way); cold periods, a few snowfalls and milder periods; although it must be said that the v.mild weeks (say +12C and above) seen in recent winters did not occur.

The stand out fact, for me, was that we had cold weather for long periods from Nov thru to mid-Feb, albeit not the real bone-crunching temps seen at times during 78-87 period.

The tantilising Q for me is: Does the winter of 08/09 mean the start of a series of colder, snowier winters (compared to last 15 years) over the next few years?

Thats what im thinking too, although im sure some of the cold winters in the 90's were stand alone winters, so there is no truth to cold winters come in bulk. Although by what ive gathered the winters in the 80's came in clumps. Does anyone even know what winter 09/10 will bring?? I certainly don't.

.....

Also of note for this winter is that we had an ice day where daytime temps didnt exceed -3.7c :lol: which to me is pretty exceptionall, did anyone else get a day time max any lower that that?

[Nick L]

Thats what im thinking too, although im sure some of the cold winters in the 90's were stand alone winters, so there is no truth to cold winters come in bulk. Although by what ive gathered the winters in the 80's came in clumps. Does anyone even know what winter 09/10 will bring?? I certainly don't.

.....

Also of note for this winter is that we had an ice day where daytime temps didnt exceed -3.7c B) which to me is pretty exceptionall, did anyone else get a day time max any lower that that?

The closest I got (I think this is the lowest max anyway) was -2.9c on New Years Eve - which is pretty notable in my opinion!

[reef]

Ill be brutally honest, the winter was absolute garbage here. Using Mr Data's Winter Index:

2003/04: 51

2004/05: 36

2005/06: 53

2006/07: 18

2007/08: 17

2008/09: 48

Just 3 days of lying snow, only measurable on one occasion, all of which were in February (the mean is 7 days). In each case it was gone in 12-18 hours. We also missed out on an ice day (lowest max was 0.2C on New Year's Eve) and managed 19 air frosts (the 1971-2000 mean is 18). The minimum temperature all winter was just -2.8C, a figure we've beaten in April before.

Just about the only thing going for it was the mean temp, which was the lowest since 1995 and the fact that January's high max temp was the lowest on record. Overall it was a massive disappointment, not helped by the fact that almost everywhere else (even nearby) seemed to have a good one.

[John Cox]

Best winter here in dublin since 2001.

Some lovely snow on many days in the 1st week of Feb.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Ill be brutally honest, the winter was absolute garbage here. Using Mr Data's Winter Index:

I didn't think of testing it on Mr Data's cold/snow winter index- well worth a look! For Cleadon we have:

1994 90

1995 41

1996 116

1997 69

1998 17

1999 50

2000 41

2001 85

2002 60

2003 62

2004 70

2005 39

2006 46

2007 29

2008 33

2009 73

...so better than the recent average, but nothing astounding.

[Tucco]

I didn't think of testing it on Mr Data's cold/snow winter index- well worth a look! For Cleadon we have:

1994 90

1995 41

1996 116

1997 69

1998 17

1999 50

2000 41

2001 85

2002 60

2003 62

2004 70

2005 39

2006 46

2007 29

2008 33

2009 73

...so better than the recent average, but nothing astounding.

How is the index calculated again ?

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

[Thundery wintry showers]

Unless I have the equation entered incorrectly (which wouldn't be the first time lol!) it runs like:

10*(days snow falling + days snow lying + no.of air frosts) / mean maximum temperature

[Tucco]

Unless I have the equation entered incorrectly (which wouldn't be the first time lol!) it runs like:

10*(days snow falling + days snow lying + no.of air frosts) / mean maximum temperature

Thanks, gives me a total of 364 for this winter if I've worked it out right

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

Edited April 16, 2009 by Tucco

[skifreak]

A very strange winter for the Scottish Mountains, but commercially successful for the Ski Areas, esp CairnGorm and despite lack of spring snow in the East for Glenshee, the snow was there in early and mid Feb when it matters most.

A very good start to the ski season on Friday 31st October at the Lecht and 1st Novmeber at CairnGorm. Generally a good first half to the season esp in the East, with Snowmageddon in the central Highlands early Feb with a mind boggling fall of snow early one morning that shut the A9 down completely between Aviemore and Inverness (unheard off) and scenes I don't recall seeing of large numbers of trees simply snapped in half littering the A9 at Daviot and Moy Moor. That weekend in early February people were easily tree skiing to Loch Morlich at CairnGorm, but the much rarer holy grail of Scottish Skiing was also notched up, Summit to Car park riding at Nevis Range, almost 3700ft of vertical descent to a base just a whisker over 300ft on the West Coast. Indeed on CairnGorm at the outset of the first spell of half-term hols in Feb things were getting close to the 2001 snow levels, but the base wasn't as well consolidated and the all over snow cover that made virtually the whole mountain skiable on CairnGorm (good while it lasted) meant that much snow had fallen without much wind, something of a mixed blessing or even a curse to some as it gives a general cover rather than the focused large build up that normally occurs in the natural gullies and snow fields and fenced ski runs (and is better able to withstand thaws).

However winter has been noticeable only by it's absence since mid-Feb. This means the season has not been so good commercially in the West where due to a mix of climate and terrain the season gets going later than the Eastern areas, but last longer into spring.

That the all over cover on CairnGorm didn't drift into the gullies and snow fields before the thaw set in undoubtedly means the season will end markedly earlier than had that snow been concentrated into such areas. Indeed when this was typed Nevis Range and CairnGorm Mountain both expect Sun 19th April to be the final day of the 2009 Ski Season and Glencoe would be very lucky to get in another weekend after that given the current model output.

The Lack of winter since mid Feb is clearly exemplified by one hideous fact in the temperature stats from 2500ft on CairnGorm Mountain this April. So far this month the temperature has not once dropped to -1c, the only air frost recorded was for a few brief hours on the 8th when the air temperature managed to struggle down to -0.6c. If the latest GFS output is anywhere near the mark that could well stand as the only April air frost recorded on CairnGorm at mid-mountain level this year, that would be truly

Edited April 17, 2009 by skifreak

[Terminal Moraine]

Very interesting as always, Skifreak. Surely the frost statistic for Cairngorm must be a record if there's no further frost until the end of the month?

[skifreak]

Glad you found it interesting. The number of air frosts at the mid-station doubled last night, maybe their like the number 22 bus and 2 or 3 will now come along on the trot - we shall see. There was a temperature inversion though so I believe no air frost at the Summit.

So thanks to it being so dry and generally not much wind, despite the mild air CairnGorm didn't run out of snow and will close due to lack of skiers rather than snow.

Still plenty enough for fun in the Ptarmigan Bowl: http://www.winterhighland.info/pix/display...&height=455

Sorry, can't embed the image, the forum doesn't seem to not like the dynamic style url when used in image tags.

This has been a season off two halves and what's quite unusual is that when this happens, it's usually the other way around with either dry or mild winter, then big snow falls giving a classic late season through spring.

Edited April 18, 2009 by skifreak

[PB22]

A poor winter here in terms of snowfall, but it was colder than recent years. We had many, many frosts - far more than I have ever known but no more than a couple of cm's of snowfall at any one point. So it was encouraging from the cold point of view, disappointing from the snow point of view. And winter finished very mild with the massively over-hyped "end of winter cold" never happening despite the various promises from some quarters.

[Wales123098]

Nice winter i recon. I had snow in all 3 months and my god Febuary, we had 9days of consective snow on the hills of south wales and toke a fair time to melt too, for the city of Cardiff though they had a good day where 5inches fell and then 3inches another day but nothing like what we had just above the M4, max recorded depth of 14inches of snow by the 8th after snow then some melt, then snow and so on every day then that didnt melt for another 6days, recorded a min of -9.8c and a min max of -3.1c. Its the most snow i ve seen in the United Kingdom, i ve seen ALOT more though in my time living in the USA though.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Wales123098

[SNOWPLOUGH]

Good point. In Cleadon the temperature on 30 November reached only 1.1C, making it the 2nd coldest day of the entire 2008/09 season, despite plenty of sunshine. The coldest day was the 31st December with a max of just 0.5C.

In Dublin the 29th of November was colder than the 30th,it had the 3rd coldest max of the winter with a temp of just 1.4C,only beaten by the 5th of Feb (1.0C) and the 7th of Feb (1.3C),both of which had snowcover,the 29th of November did not. An interesting fact anyway.

SNOWPLOUGH 

[Shirelord]

Very notable in N. Oxon countryside (near Banbury), snow fell on 10 days, lay for 16 (like Northampton I guess) -maximum depth 10". Cold start to December, average up to Xmas then very cold in early January, -14C, then average for second half of January before that February spell (which I think we nearly got down to -14C again, genuine long icicles formed on our lamp posts ); then out like a damp squid like everyone else for the remainder of the winter in February - but can't complain that was easily the best winter for many a year.

[J10]

21 major events of note, the cold over Christmas/New Year, which gave extensive frozen lakes etc locally, and the snow event at the start of February which gave 8 successive Met Office Snow Days, which the inch of rain on the Monday did terminal damage to this.

[skifreak]

Just to revisit this thread as an update on April weather on CairnGorm (at 2500ft) there were just 3 air frosts recorded, the first on the 8th as mentioned only dipped to -0.6c. The was a further frost on the 18th and then the 22nd, there were no ice days and not even a single day with an average below 0c.

That contrasts to last April which had 18 days where the daily average was below 0c. The monthly average temperature for April 2009 was 3.5c higher than April 2009.

[damianslaw]

Case of a very good first 2 and a half months (exception the lead up to christmas and period between 11th-16th jan which were both mild affairs), but yes late winter 2009 just fizzled into nothingness, a very abrupt end to a fairly decent winter.. spoiling what would have been a very good all round season, in this respect winter 2008/2009 had a very similiar pattern to 1996/97 which also abruptly ended in February more quicker that season than this year yes... but again this winter was nothing on a par with the last colder winter i.e. 95/96 that saw a very long lasting season well into May even for Highland regions..

Hope winter 09/10 will last more the course than 2008/2009 but also start as early 2008/2009 wishful thinking..

[woldsowl]

I found it quite a disappointing Winter here, although the figures don't really support that comment, but like many close to East coast, it never quite happened.

November started well, 20cm from a Northerly (and nothing a few miles inland), and 4 days cover. December had 9 days cover, though nothing really significant, there was our one and only ice day of the winter, 18 days below 0 and a mean min of 0 exactly.

Jan was nothing to write home about, 3 days snow cover. Feb had 14 days cover, but only one significant fall of 15cm. March was a write off with 1 day cover.

Overall the lowest min was -5.5 which is a lot higher than expected, 31 days snow cover Nov to March and 66 air frosts same period.

A real lack of proper Northerlies, November excepted, was the major disappointment.

[johnholmes]

some on here would love to get your number of snow days etc.

How about you tell us how many winters in the past, say, 10 years, have had more snow falling/lying and more air frosts, then it would be easier for all of us to see a direct comparison of your winter with that period?

thanks

[woldsowl]

some on here would love to get your number of snow days etc.

How about you tell us how many winters in the past, say, 10 years, have had more snow falling/lying and more air frosts, then it would be easier for all of us to see a direct comparison of your winter with that period?

thanks

That's a very valid point John and hard to argue against, which is why I said the figures don't really back up my feelings.

I have got all the figures for the past 5 years, but I'm a lazy bugger and they're not all totalled.

However, there was slightly more snow cover this year, but I've had totals close to that. The mean min and max's are no colder than anything I've had before. The overall min's were higher than usual. Total ground frosts about normal. However, as an example, Dec/Jan/Feb mean min's were 0.0 to 0.6 and whilst I might have had 2 winter months, I haven't had 3 previously that low. I haven't had significant falls of snow in Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb consecutively either.

So nothing exceptional here and there were times when the East coast influence many noted last winter really kicked in. We had some significant falls of rain at times when inland there was snow, so it could have been significantly snowier but for a half degree c at times!

My location is prone to snow and frost, but I did choose to live here. Previously I chose to live 700 feet up in the Pennines and the reason is so I could experience more extreme weather.

My office is in York, but I would prefer the commute and more frost and snow thanks!

[johnholmes]

tks for that