General Climate Change Discussion.......

[LomondSnowstorm]

http://www.timesonli...icle6894473.ece

....and another call in the media to cut the hysteria.

Fingers crossed.

Cut the hysterical catastrophising and then everyone work together to make the world a cleaner place. How hard can it be? There is plenty of brain-power around and the money used for hysterical purposes would be better put towards finding a solution to the problem.

...and is there really a total of 20,000 people going to Copenhagen for the convention? If so, that is a wicked piece of hypocrisy, unless they are all using some sort of clean energy to get there.

I live a cleaner life, myself, than these all-around-the-world-flying, gas-guzzling-vehicle-driving, multi-home-owning, self-serving-politicians that are attending.

I thought things like video conferencing were supposed to cut "business" travel?

...and I am not even going to get started on so-called "celebrities" who fly all around the world telling us how we are ruining the planet............

That's it from me for now. I have to go to the supermarket. I will be walking. I will not be putting my fruit and vegetables into little plastic bags. I will be choosing British produce. I will be taking my sturdy and elderly shopping bags with me. In fact, I will do it as I have been doing it for years.

Have a nice weekend, everyone and don't forget....it's the X-Factor tonight.

Jedward to win.

You'd made an ally until you wrote that last sentence.

Anyway, obscuring valid issues like deforestation, desertification and resource depletion with the idea of cutting CO2 emissions is not helpful to anyone. Of course we have to move towards living in a sustainable way and also towards using energy supplies that won't run out in the next 1,000 years at least but at the same time spending vast sums of money before considering the implications just to appear to be acting on 'global warming' does no one any good, least of all environmentalists. We must not rush into making monumental changes, however neccesary they are in the long run, without first looking at all the evidence and all the options available.

[noggin]

Anyway, obscuring valid issues like deforestation, desertification and resource depletion with the idea of cutting CO2 emissions is not helpful to anyone.

No, it isn't, is it? Carbon-this and carbon-that, low carbon economy, low carbon jobs, low carbon lifestyles. If Co2 levels were lower, would everything be hunky-dory? Would it mean that we have an endless supply of clean fuel? Would it mean a benign climate? No, I don't think it would, but the powers-that-be have gone carbon-crazy!

Let the Earth's ills, eg. such as you have mentioned (and others), be sorted rationally and sensibly by those who are empowered to and paid to and have the brains to do so. I, in the mean-time, will do all I can in my own little bit of the world.

Only joking about Jedward, by the way! I think Danyl is the most talented.

[Gray-Wolf]

Let the Earth's ills, eg. such as you have mentioned (and others), be sorted rationally and sensibly by those who are empowered to and paid to and have the brains to do so. I, in the mean-time, will do all I can in my own little bit of the world.

If only Nog's, if only.I think that the folk with the brains can see exactly what needs to be done but the nations involved need to be 'bought off' their reliance on their natural resources as a means to keep their own populations 'happy' (and I mean happy in the loosest of ways) and if we have no will to subsidise the developing world in carbon issues why would we find the 'will' (and cash) to do this?

Were we in a position to halt the illegal logging in Indonesia the would we have not done so already? Illegal burning in Greece to free up land to build the Villas for NW Europeans would be a thing of the past, Brazil would have agreed on land use options for it's many poor subsistence farmers, overfishing would not be an issue for all the thousands who depend on it for their only source of income.All it takes is a lot of wonga from us, the haves, to help the have nots (and I don't mean the bankers and their bonus's).

If you think it is too much of an ask to save the climate by controlling our GHG producing then how do you think it'd go with saving the environment of a land far ,far ,away?

I think it wise to figure how it will be when we are 'forced' to act (as we did when acid rain threatened our lakes and forests in the developed world).

I feel a 'plan 'B' is a necessary thing for the globe.

By the time we are 'forced to act' it'll be 'game over ' won't it?

As you say ,do your own bit ,keep your own conscience clear and then moan like Fug when the world (those in the positions to 'Do' something ) shaft you over.

[Coast]

A satellite called the Soil Moisture and Ocean Salinity (SMOS) probe has been launched into space to measure water movements on Earth to explore climate change.

The European Space Agency (ESA) said the £282m device was put into space in the early hours of Monday morning to gauge the impact of climate change on the movement of water across land, air and sea. It was lifted into space on a Russian Rocket launcher from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in northern Russia.

As the first space-based measure of the water in Earth's soil and the saltiness of its oceans, scientists hope SMOS will be able to fill important gaps in our knowledge about the planet's vital water cycle. It could also help develop more accurate weather forecasts.

Yann Kerr, scientific director of the SMOS mission, said: "Climate change is a fact, but its impact on precipitation, evaporation, surface runoff and flood risks is still uncertain.

"The availability of water plays a more important role on these impacts than temperature itself."

SMOS has two missions. The first is to measure the water content of soil across the planet every three days to a depth of up to 2m.

This will monitor photosynthesis and plant growth, which is critical for calculating the process by which carbon dioxide is released and absorbed, especially by plants and the oceans.

Its second job is to measure changes in the salt content of the surface of the seas, which will improve understanding of what drives ocean circulation patterns around the world. Variations in the salinity of ocean waters depend on the addition or removal of fresh water through evaporation and precipitation and, in polar regions, on the freezing and melting of ice.

The mission is intended to last three years, but could be extended to five. A second ESA satellite was lifted into space the same day, to demonstrate new technology, including a new type of lithium-ion battery, an advanced data and power management system, a dual-frequency GPS receiver, an experimental solar panel, an exploration micro-camera and a dozen other gadgets

www.telegraph.co.uk

www.nasaspaceflight.com

[noggin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1224475/China-overdoes-cloud-seeding-end-drought--blankets-Beijing-snow.html

Caution in reporting/predicting has recently been urged again, as we know, by Dr. Pope of the MetO.

Caution is also required when it comes to trying to change the weather, as the above link shows!

[SteveB]

http://www.dailymail...ijing-snow.html

Caution in reporting/predicting has recently been urged again, as we know, by Dr. Pope of the MetO.

Caution is also required when it comes to trying to change the weather, as the above link shows!

I hate this cloud seeding business, it's just asking for trouble. Instead of banging on about lowering our carbon foot print, the governments of this world should get together and put a global ban on cloud seeding.

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091102212153.htm

Yet another example of a past civilisation that brought about their own demise by environmental means. For those who feel man is to insignificant (in scale) to harm his global environment take note of all the past civilisations that over-did their resource management.

[jethro]

There's a world of difference between man affecting his back yard and being able to not only influence Global climate, but dominate it too.

It's like taking the weather in Somerset and extrapolating it to paint a Global picture - it doesn't work.

[Admiral_Bobski]

And there's me thinking that the Nasca people died out because of their fascination with dangerous motorsports...

:winky:

CB

[jethro]

And there's me thinking that the Nasca people died out because of their fascination with dangerous motorsports...

CB

:winky:

[laserguy]

And there's me thinking that the Nasca people died out because of their fascination with dangerous motorsports...

CB

Very good,C-Bob! Perhaps it was the CO2 emissions from said fascination which generated the 'mega El Nino' mentioned in the article? (Joke,if anyone doesn't get it).Something which today's AGW proponents would like to have us believe. Nothing new under the sun,etc.

[Methuselah]

Very good,C-Bob! Perhaps it was the CO2 emissions from said fascination which generated the 'mega El Nino' mentioned in the article? (Joke,if anyone doesn't get it).Something which today's AGW proponents would like to have us believe. Nothing new under the sun,etc.

guys...

And, the Easter Island folks shuffled off this mortal coil as a result of their penchant for collecting heavy stones?? :winky:

[jethro]

Wasn't it the CO2 from all the huffing and puffing involved when they moved them?

[Methuselah]

Wasn't it the CO2 from all the huffing and puffing involved when they moved them?

Of course it was... :winky:

[jethro]

Al Gore in the spotlight again. I'd love to believe he's pure of heart, selfless and entirely altruistic but there's a world weary cynic inside my head...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/energy-environment/03gore.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

[Admiral_Bobski]

guys...

And, the Easter Island folks shuffled off this mortal coil as a result of their penchant for collecting heavy stones??

Nope - it was an obesity epidemic from eating too many chocolate eggs. (And all the dieticians were on the mainland.)

CB

Edited November 3, 2009 by Captain_Bobski

[rob48]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224961/Green-views-religion-environmentalist-wins-claim-sacked-beliefs.html

Does this confirm worshipping of AGW is a religious mania and non-believers really are heretics?

Beginning to look that way.

[Devonian]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224961/Green-views-religion-environmentalist-wins-claim-sacked-beliefs.html

Does this confirm worshipping of AGW is a religious mania and non-believers really are heretics?

Beginning to look that way.

Erm, no, it looks like it further confirms your belief that AGW is a religious mania bla bla actually :o

My advice is, if you must read The Mail, to not take a blind bit of notice of it because it's all a load of baloney.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Devonian

[jethro]

But the man at the centre of all this says it's his "philosophical belief" and "philosophical views that are worthy of protection".

Science isn't mentioned at all.

[laserguy]

If a grown man turned up on a pushbike like that,I'd sack him on the spot! Wonder if there's any 'career opportunities' at Greenpeace for him?

[Devonian]

If a grown man turned up on a pushbike like that,I'd sack him on the spot!

Would you now, presumably you'd emply lard ar*es too unfit to be able to get to work using their own energy

Wonder if there's any 'career opportunities' at Greenpeace for him?

Possible, possibly not.

But the man at the centre of all this says it's his "philosophical belief" and "philosophical views that are worthy of protection".

Science isn't mentioned at all.

So, it's nothing to do with 'religious mania' everything to do with a discrimination against a philosophy - this is my understanding. So, I think it comes down to what are valid reasons to sack someone, and that is what the court case is about.

[Admiral_Bobski]

It is worth pointing out that the man was not sacked - he was made redundant, which is a somewhat different thing. The employee has alleged that he was cut unfairly by his employer for his "philosophical views" but the company themselves claim that his job was only one of a number of cuts made during the current economic situation.

His job, I believe, was "Head of Sustainability" - not, I would argue, and absolutely crucial role in their residential landlords company. If the job was created during better economic times as a sign of their Green Credentials (God, I hate that phrase!) then it follows that during worse economic times it is a less important job than, say, Payroll Manager.

It looks to me like a simple case of cutting the deadwood, but that is for the tribunal to decide.

CB

[Devonian]

It is worth pointing out that the man was not sacked - he was made redundant, which is a somewhat different thing. The employee has alleged that he was cut unfairly by his employer for his "philosophical views" but the company themselves claim that his job was only one of a number of cuts made during the current economic situation.

His job, I believe, was "Head of Sustainability" - not, I would argue, and absolutely crucial role in their residential landlords company. If the job was created during better economic times as a sign of their Green Credentials (God, I hate that phrase!) then it follows that during worse economic times it is a less important job than, say, Payroll Manager.

It looks to me like a simple case of cutting the deadwood, but that is for the tribunal to decide.

CB

I tend to agree, but it is the bit I emphasise that will decide the matter, not our second/nth hand opinions.

[laserguy]

Would you now, presumably you'd emply lard ar*es too unfit to be able to get to work using their own energy

Ouch! You're right of course,but I bet they'd be much better company when they did turn up .

[rob48]

@ Devonian:

"My advice is, if you must read The Mail, to not take a blind bit of notice of it because it's all a load of baloney. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/03/tim-nicholson-climate-change-belief

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/tim-nicholson-a-green-martyr-1648388.html

Perhaps it would be quicker for YOU to tell US which ones we can believe?