Allotment

[philglossop]

In terms of "flame thrower" they're on offer at Lidls this week at £14.99 (Plymouth area)

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

I'm still fighting clearance problems with my allotment space. A rotivator was hired for 24 hrs and a few of us took it in turns to turn over the (double) plot area. This was after having hacked back the long surface weeds and grass with a strimmer. Then after using the rotivator, attention turned to the spade to try to break up the clods of overturned earth. The soil is quite fertile but it is heavy and hardworking.

The patch was then covered with black weed control sheeting and a dose of weed killer.

However, even within a week this has not stopped the weeds returning underneath with a vengeance. Plus the other problem is that all the approach way and path to my plot is totally overgrown and this is making things very difficult in terms of access and also transporting equipment plus things like compost bin, water butt etc. I can see a future being dominated with fighting this when I want to be attending to my own plot!

The council only occassionally clear these access areas so perhaps getting one of these flame guns may be the answer. As well as keeping the lid on the weeds in my actual allotment space itself.

[Gray-Wolf]

Maybe time to re-read all the perma-culture literature?

As with everything the art is turning Adversity into Advantage so seeking out ways to work with ,as opposed to dominating, nature has to be key.

Rotavating and hoeing may be something you look to hold back on? If you read into soil management you may find that keeping a firm surface is far better than breaking it all up (allowing soil to loose moisture etc) .

Check for the 'weeds' you have that introduce/fix nitrogen in your soil as well (no need for fallow years then) and companion planting for pest control.

If I were lucky enough to have the space/time for an allotment sized plot I would certainly be looking to the perma-culture way of being (I'm lazy by nature! 98% thought ,2% action an' all that!!!).

Good luck with it all, I can think of no other thing, outside of family, that'll bring a soul a sense of purpose and achievement than a productive plot bringing the dream of self sufficiency that step closer!!!

[jethro]

Tamara, I may have got this wrong buy your post above sounds like you dug in the weeds and then sprayed with weed killer. Have I got that right? Most weedkillers work by interacting with the chlorophyll in leaves, if you've dug the weeds in already, they won't work.

The black fabric should work on new weed growth but it may take a week or two - they'll be newly germinated ones activated by being brought to the surface by digging, they will run out of energy as soon as they've used up the store in the seed, the fabric will deprive them of any more.

Flame guns are brilliant, especially for long neglected ground as they kill the dormant weed seeds too.

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Tamara, I may have got this wrong buy your post above sounds like you dug in the weeds and then sprayed with weed killer. Have I got that right? Most weedkillers work by interacting with the chlorophyll in leaves, if you've dug the weeds in already, they won't work.

The black fabric should work on new weed growth but it may take a week or two - they'll be newly germinated ones activated by being brought to the surface by digging, they will run out of energy as soon as they've used up the store in the seed, the fabric will deprive them of any more.

Flame guns are brilliant, especially for long neglected ground as they kill the dormant weed seeds too.

Well, the idea was to break up the compacted ground with the rotivator (to make digging easier) and then sort of double dig the broken up clods of earth and try and remove the weeds at the same time. However I guess it was inevitable that a fair number were left behind on the first 'going over' and the idea of the weed killer was to try and prevent the broken shoots re-rooting (aided by the black covering). The draw back of rotivating is that it can worsen the weeds in respect of breaking them up and leaving daughter weeds to re-grow. So obviously, as you rightly suggest, the weedkiller didn't get into the soil enough to prevent quick re-growth of the weeds. The soil, as I mentioned before, is especially sticky and very heavy, and whilst all preparation work naturally cannot avoid hard work and elbow grease, there is only so much a woman of a certain age can do in a few hours without a break Even with a few of us working, plus my friends 25 yr old son helping us too when he can! So hence the weeds were not blitzed on the first major salvo.

A case of keeping going I guess! Who exactly needs to join a gym with this sort of work out!?

Still, thanks for the encouragement about the sheeting - and the flame gun has certainly got the approval of me and my co-workers!

Edited June 8, 2010 by North Sea Snow Convection

[Gray-Wolf]

Jethro's dead right about the weeds (and their seeds) and this is one of the issues with 'digging'. Have a look at the research done on 'no dig' plots and the benefits to both soil and you!!!

The other 'Fave' is old carpets to suppress weeds. Most are of man made fibres and so will rot away over time but allows you to keep your plot 'weed free' whilst planting through the cover. It is also permeable so you don't lose rainfall.

If you like you can also think about irrigation and the best way to do this without waste (with no tap on site....nasty bleachy town water) you rainfall harvest is going to be very important.

Take a look at making your own 'pee room' and reed bed scrubbers to limit the need to pop back to the house? (we fellas are lucky as our pee acts as a compost accelerator so we can bucket it and put it over the compost). A little pond for your Frogs and Toads and you'll impact your slug issue too!

If you do opt for black plastic sheeting (warms the ground in spring allowing for earlier planting) for weed control then sink a dustbin at one end and 'channel' rainwater runoff into it.

Also 'scrap tyres' are free and apart from making good tatty planters (you can add rings as the spuds grow) they also make good structures if back filled with earth. A shallow pond above ground level (allowing you to use a hose from it) is only about 4 tyres high and you can 'float' you're lettuce plants in it to keep them pest free (in those polystyrene trays you get you plants in?).

[jethro]

I can see you're a Bob Flowerdew man GW, I'm more of a Penelope Hobhouse person.

Permaculture and no dig plots are great in theory but what none of them seem to address is the issue of initial soil preparation. Heavy, compacted soil really must be worked properly first, all the top dressing in the world won't work if there's no air in the soil.

Tamara: once you've got the heavy work out of the way, if your soil is heavy and claggy, the best plan is to stay off it as much as possible - even in dry weather. Get yourself a couple of old scaffold boards (or new from builders merchant) lay these down where you need to work and stand on them. It's a bit awkward to begin with but you soon get used to it; spreading the load in this way really helps not to compact the soil further. Another great way of breaking up a heavy soil is to sow a winter green manure, you do have to dig it in in the Spring but they're a fantastic soil conditioner for clay.

[Gray-Wolf]

I can see you're a Bob Flowerdew man GW, I'm more of a Penelope Hobhouse person.

Busted!

I think the 'soil quandry' is solved by a one time deep dig and condition and then, as you say, keep tramping to a minimum. I suppose you're trying to get the soil back to where it would have been before we took to messing with it?

[Azores Hi]

Bloody good day in the Allotment yesterday! Did the final bit of digging and nearly all planted out. I am determined to get some pictures up soon as me and my wife are very proud of what we have managed to do.

We managed to harvest our first crop, 4 little courgettes. I've made a huge tactical error here, having learnt from history that one plant really is sufficient to keep 2 people supplied I've gone and planted 5 of the boomin things!

I remember the year I did 3 plants and come Autumn every draw I opened had courgettes in it, we were tripping over them!

Carrots look great and are ready for the first thinning next week I think. Beetroot also ready soon.

Onions are going nuts! All my Allium species are looking fantastic actually, I think it's got more to do with the soil than any skill on my part!

So, so far so good! Nothing has failed yet! But there is plenty of time for it to go wrong!

Oh, and on the no dig issue, this relies on the worms to airate the soil. It's a tricky thing to get the right ballance and it does rather depend on the crops you are planting and the soil you have. Personally, I've been top deressing the borders for years, mainly to supress weeds but after 3-4 years it has totally changed the soil struture in my garden. It's gone from heavy clay to a lovely friable mixture. The holy grail of free draining yet water retentave!

My plot is divided up into lots of seperate beds so maybe I will try the non-dig method in one or two of them for a while and compare results...

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Tamara: once you've got the heavy work out of the way, if your soil is heavy and claggy, the best plan is to stay off it as much as possible - even in dry weather. Get yourself a couple of old scaffold boards (or new from builders merchant) lay these down where you need to work and stand on them. It's a bit awkward to begin with but you soon get used to it; spreading the load in this way really helps not to compact the soil further. Another great way of breaking up a heavy soil is to sow a winter green manure, you do have to dig it in in the Spring but they're a fantastic soil conditioner for clay.

Thanks for the advice

[NorthNorfolkWeather]

Hi All,

Just picked up on this thread, I'm a relative novice, in my second season of working an allotment, I read the comments on the previous pages about the systems where you don't dig, or use rotavators. My thoughts are that, for at least a complete rotation, so sensibly 3 years, you juts need to dig it and turn it over, especially if it's heavy soil. Any manure helps, I had 10 tons of it to spread last year, (my muscles ached for a week), but the soil is much better for it this year.

I look forward to reading of everyone's many successes and hopefully few failures

[Azores Hi]

A few from today!

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Well done you!!

Those first meals that you make for yourself/your family from your own hour fresh produce will be the THE best!!

[Azores Hi]

Well done you!!

Those first meals that you make for yourself/your family from your own hour fresh produce will be the THE best!!

Thanks!

Just had some courgettes and beetroot for dinner straight from the plot, it was yummy!

[NorthNorfolkWeather]

Thanks!

Just had some courgettes and beetroot for dinner straight from the plot, it was yummy!

We had our first dozen Strawberries last evening, that would have been 3 each, except the granddaughter (almost 4) got there first. The adults had 2 each, she had the rest

And they were delicious, many more to come, along with Raspberries, Loganberries, Blackberries and Blackcurrants

Edited June 23, 2010 by NorthNorfolkWeather

[Andy H]

Can anyone tell me about watering my potatoes? they are not looking to healthy at the moment and these are my late crop, i have heard that tomatoes are a thirsty crop so been watering them really well, and they are doing fine, mi better half reckons pots do not need much watering as it rots the crop?? yet i have very small potatoes coming out of the ground. any advice would be great as was hoping to harvest these mid August

[jethro]

Usually they don't need watering but it's been so dry, they'd probably;y benefit from a good soak. Try not to get the water on the foliage, it's prime blight time and wet foliage makes them more susceptible.

[peterf]

Can anyone tell me about watering my potatoes? they are not looking to healthy at the moment and these are my late crop, i have heard that tomatoes are a thirsty crop so been watering them really well, and they are doing fine, mi better half reckons pots do not need much watering as it rots the crop?? yet i have very small potatoes coming out of the ground. any advice would be great as was hoping to harvest these mid August

if they are you latecrop,leave well alone we are still in july.

they are a slow maturing variety so leave them until they have flowered and the haulms begin to die back.

for earlies (which i'm still lifting) get a quick first early seed variety.feast on them during the summer and leave the lates till september onwards .peter.

[Andy H]

Usually they don't need watering but it's been so dry, they'd probably;y benefit from a good soak. Try not to get the water on the foliage, it's prime blight time and wet foliage makes them more susceptible.

my thoughts exactly, been watering them well the last couple of nights but at root level

if they are you latecrop,leave well alone we are still in july.

they are a slow maturing variety so leave them until they have flowered and the haulms begin to die back.

for earlies (which i'm still lifting) get a quick first early seed variety.feast on them during the summer and leave the lates till september onwards .peter.

finished off all the earlies for wife's BD, we planted these King Edwards early June for harvest August, they were doing really well, but recently have just basically gone to pot, some are ok but some are just looking a bit sorry for themselves

[peterf]

my thoughts exactly, been watering them well the last couple of nights but at root level

finished off all the earlies for wife's BD, we planted these King Edwards early June for harvest August, they were doing really well, but recently have just basically gone to pot, some are ok but some are just looking a bit sorry for themselves

all depends how fertile your soil is.need to watch out for late blight alerts aswell.

but just be patient they are main to latecrop and we aint at that time yet.

[jethro]

I think location maybe plays a part here though, down here some maincrops are almost ready for lifting.

[Andy H]

Down the allotment on Sunday, a lot of people were covering there Pumpkins and tomatoes, saying there is a risk of frost this coming weekend?, reading through the model discussion i see there is a chance for cooler weather, but will there be frosts this weekend?

[Andy H]

Busy time for allotment holders, so far we have planted out red onions, white onions and Garlic, we also have pots all over the house with seedlings, also new season potatoes are in egg boxes in the shed, i will take some pictures next weekend, looking at this thread form when I started it last year I cannot believe how far advanced we are, I am now itching to get planting in, but with the frosts at the moment i know its worth holding off,

[philglossop]

Just started our allotment this year, had to clear waist high brambles and roses- rotivated and dug for England!

Cauliflowers in the ground now, and loads in the pipeline!

[Anti Boring Weather]

doing my onions this weekend i have waited until now because they didnt turn the taps on till yesterday, it has been so dry this spring the ground needs a good watering, so its nice and easy to dig.

hope we dont see any more frosts now as my tomatoes are way ahead of schdule and prob need to go out by the end of the month. Last year we had a frost on 17th may and my cucumbers just about survived.