Antarctic Ice Discussion

[keithlucky]

Antarctic sea ice approaches The largest Anomaly of ever recordedhttp://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.antarctic.png

[Tasboy]

Antarctic sea ice approaches The largest Anomaly of ever recordedhttp://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.antarctic.png

 

Not on a daily basis. A daily extent anomaly (from 1981-2010 climatology) of 2.2 million square kms was recorded on 21 Dec 2007.

See: http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/gsfc_sh_extent_anom.html

The current daily anomaly is 1.4 million square kms (see http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html for the data).

[Tasboy]

An interesting article has just been published on the importance of ice drainage from the Wilkes Basin (Ice plug prevents irreversible discharge from East Antarctica):

- http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2226.html

 

It's an interesting area for sea ice.

[keithlucky]

Not on a daily basis. A daily extent anomaly (from 1981-2010 climatology) of 2.2 million square kms was recorded on 21 Dec 2007.

See: http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/gsfc_sh_extent_anom.html

The current daily anomaly is 1.4 million square kms (see http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html for the data).

Wrong sea ice extent continues to break records highest sea ice extent for April since records began in 1979 http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/index.html

Edited May 5, 2014 by keithlucky

[Tasboy]

Wrong sea ice extent continues to break records highest sea ice extent for April since records began in 1979 http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/index.html

Yes, I agree. But that's not what I said, and that's not what you said. You might need to go back and re-read what you wrote.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Tasboy

[stewfox]

7.376  sq km of ice

 

4th May 1980

 

 

10.561sq km of ice

 

5th May 2014

 

 

That s 6 times the area of France of new ice  

 

 

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html

 

Global sea ice well above average

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.global.png

Edited May 6, 2014 by stewfox

[Tasboy]

7.376  sq km of ice

 

4th May 1980

 

 

10.561sq km of ice

 

5th May 2014

 

 

That s 6 times the area of France of new ice  

 

 

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html

 

Global sea ice well above average

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.global.png

Why 4th of May 1980? Why not 4th May 1979 (which was 9.502)?

But I agree, the record Antarctic sea ice extent at the moment is quite remarkable (in comparison to the relative short history of records).

[Gray-Wolf]

An interesting article has just been published on the importance of ice drainage from the Wilkes Basin (Ice plug prevents irreversible discharge from East Antarctica):

- http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2226.html

 

It's an interesting area for sea ice.

 

I've been banging on about the 'sleeping giant' since before 07' ( Antarctica was my 'pet' prior to the 07' events across the Arctic basin) so this is confirmation that I was no being unduly alarmist about the events unfolding there?

 

The upland melt , measured by NASA, of the snow/ice up to a mile up the trans Antarctic range (behind Ross) really caught my eye as all you ever heard back then was denialists banter about a 'cooling interior'?

 

The loss of West Antarctica also plays a part in the initial rapid melting of the east by opening up the channel between West and East and putting Ross in jeopardy ( an ice sheet the size of France and holding over 4ft of sea level rise).

 

The uncorking of Wilkes, and the loss of the Roosevelt Island side of Ross, would give us near instant ( a decade?) multi feet sea level rise and badly impact the planets infrastructure ( all the global financial centres appear at risk along with all the oil terminals/ cargo ports) over a very short period.

 

I believe that such potential demands we take serious the risks from Antarctica and not just play games with 'numbers' and rogue data points? 

[stewfox]

 

The loss of West Antarctica also plays a part in the initial rapid melting of the east by opening up the channel between West and East and putting Ross in jeopardy ( an ice sheet the size of France and holding over 4ft of sea level rise).

 

The uncorking of Wilkes, and the loss of the Roosevelt Island side of Ross, would give us near instant ( a decade?) multi feet sea level rise and badly impact the planets infrastructure ( all the global financial centres appear at risk along with all the oil terminals/ cargo ports) over a very short period.

 

I believe that such potential demands we take serious the risks from Antarctica and not just play games with 'numbers' and rogue data points? 

 

To be fair those 'numbers' are factual re what has happened, although cherry picking a data point is hardly new.

 

However I agree the next few hundred years will be interesting down there.

[keithlucky]

Antarctic sea ice at record levels exceeds previous record by 320,000 sq km this was caused by lower than average temperatures in March April  http://www.thegwpf.org/antarctic-sea-ice-at-record-levels/

Edited May 12, 2014 by keithlucky

[Interitus]

'Nothing can stop retreat' of West Antarctic glaciers - Key glaciers in West Antarctica are in an irreversible retreat, a study team led by the US space agency (Nasa) says

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27381010

 

Associated NASA video - 'Runaway Glaciers in West Antarctica'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQMtb1Pd07E&list=UUryGec9PdUCLjpJW2mgCuLw

Edited May 12, 2014 by Interitus

[knocker]

By coincidence

 

Airborne radar surveys and data-based models indicate West Antarctic Ice Sheet collapse is underway

 

http://nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=131369&org=NSF&from=news

[Tasboy]

Nice papers! Thanks for the heads-up.

Links to both papers here:

- Joughin et al (Thwaites Glacier Basin): http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/05/12/science.1249055

 

- Rignot et al (Pine Island, Thwaites, Smith and Kohler glaciers): http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GL060140/abstract

 

Now, I wonder what link these might have to the records we're seeing in sea ice extent??? 

[knocker]

 

Now, I wonder what link these might have to the records we're seeing in sea ice extent??? 

 

Now there's a question. How I wish we had Sat. records prior to 1980 so perhaps we could get a better handle on the link with ozone destruction.

[BornFromTheVoid]

Evolution of the Southern Annular Mode during the past millennium

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2235.html

Review of the article http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/12/roaring-forties-shift-south-means-more-droughts-for-southern-australia

[knocker]

Interesting. Unfortunately I can't get the PDF to load completely. Puts the kibosh on drumming up new ideas. I like the graphic so stuck it in.

 

Also this paper which is relevant.

 

Disappearing snow increases risk of collapsing ice shelves in Antarctica

 

A number of floating ice shelves in Antarctica are at risk of disappearing entirely in the next 200 years, as global warming reduces their snow cover. Their collapse would enhance the discharge of ice into the oceans and increase the rate at which sea-level rises. A rapid reduction of greenhouse gas emissions could save a number of these ice shelves, researchers say.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140130040834.htm

 

BPRC's John Mercer warned of this in a 1978 article in Nature titled "West Antarctic ice sheet and CO2 greenhouse effect: a threat of disaster.

 

 

The new finding appears to be the fulfillment of a prediction made in 1978 by an eminent glaciologist, John H. Mercer of the Ohio State University. He outlined the vulnerable nature of the West Antarctic ice sheet and warned that the rapid human-driven release of greenhouse gases posed “a threat of disaster.†He was assailed at the time, but in recent years, scientists have been watching with growing concern as events have unfolded in much the way Dr. Mercer predicted. (He died in 1987.)

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2014 by knocker

[keithlucky]

Latest on Antarctic record sea ice growth

[be cause]

I see there has been a dramatic halt to sea ice growth the past few days.. hardly ENSO effects yet . We may be seeing the end of records for a while ..

[Gray-Wolf]

I'd noted that B' Sadly any move toward Nino will impact the Land based ice far greater than the Sea ice with recent studies showing us that PIG is especially at danger from such ENSO conditions?

 

I think I'd rather see less sea ice but more retention of land ice than see the giga tonnage of land ice slip into the ocean and help with the seasonal extension of sea ice?

[knocker]

Dr. Mauri Pelto on Antarctic Melt, Part 1 http://wp.me/pOYWd-4YB

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORnBABQzaHI&feature=player_detailpage

[knocker]

Dr. Mauri Pelto on Antarctic Melt Part 2

[4wd]

How many thousand years do we have before Los Angeles is under water.That's what we need to know.

[knocker]

Increased ice losses from Antarctica detected by CryoSat-2

 

 

Abstract

We use 3 years of Cryosat-2 radar altimeter data to develop the first comprehensive assessment of Antarctic ice sheet elevation change. This new dataset provides near-continuous (96%) coverage of the entire continent, extending to within 215 kilometres of the South Pole and leading to a fivefold increase in the sampling of coastal regions where the vast majority of all ice losses occur. Between 2010 and 2013, West Antarctica, East Antarctica, and the Antarctic Peninsula changed in mass by −134 ± 27, −3 ± 36, and −23 ± 18 Gt yr^−1 respectively. In West Antarctica, signals of imbalance are present in areas that were poorly surveyed by past missions, contributing additional losses that bring altimeter observations closer to estimates based on other geodetic techniques. However, the average rate of ice thinning in West Antarctica has also continued to rise, and mass losses from this sector are now 31% greater than over the period 2005–2011.

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GL060111/abstract

[stewfox]

Records continue to tumble

 

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html

 

Global sea ice over 600,000 sq kms above long term average

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.global.png

[stewfox]

Records continue to tumble

 

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html

 

Global sea ice over 600,000 sq kms above long term average

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.global.png

 

and tumble

 

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/preid/seaice/sea_ice_table_extent.html