Antarctic Ice Discussion

[cheeky_monkey]

You have the global sea ice chart there CM.

I know..however Keith is stating the value is 1m above the mean when it is below the mean

[knocker]

Antarctica’s Point of No Return

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/anders-levermann-explains-why-nothing-can-be-done-to-halt-the-collapse-of-the-amundsen-sea-s-ice-shelf

[Gray-Wolf]

I can see the attraction to the D side when faced with articles like that Knocks! We all know full well that no 'drastic action' to reduce emissions is going to occur so they may well have said 'is going to' throughout the piece?

 

I can see new innovations in renewables occurring and efficiency in current renewables increase but 'drastic reductions in fossil fuel use'? No in the next decade that is for sure!!!

 

We then move around to natures contribution to our GHG problems. Will sinks remain unaffected by the ongoing wide scale climate disruption? ( ocean, rainforest, boreal forest and tundra) I also think not on this issue. Like the ice reaching the crest of the hill we have pushed too hard and now we are about to see nature alone take control ( and flip to a new stable climate point?).

[mikeworst]

CM, Keith was showing the antarctic anomaly chart. What you posted was the global anomaly chart, kapish?

[BornFromTheVoid]

CM, Keith was showing the antarctic anomaly chart. What you posted was the global anomaly chart, kapish?

 

CM didn't post any chart, he just quoted Keith. Keith's claim was:

"Another daily record broken 1,020,00 sq km above the means that"s 170sq km thousand above the daily mean record."

 

And then proceeded to post this graph in support.

 

 

But the graph clearly shows current extent (at the time) as being below average.

 

Here's his post, for you to see, Mike.

 

 

Another daily record broken 1,020,00 sq km above the means that"s 170sq km thousand above the daily mean record.

 

 

 

A simple case of posting the wrong graph methinks.

[Interitus]

 

A simple case of posting the wrong graph methinks.

 

The blog had three graphs, KL didn't check to see that the first one copy and pasted had nothing to do with the headline reported.

[keithlucky]

The blog had three graphs, KL didn't check to see that the first one copy and pasted had nothing to do with the headline reported.

Sorry about that, Antarctic sea ice obliterates daily record by 500.000 sq km

Edited July 25, 2014 by keithlucky

[keithlucky]

NASA update Antarctic record sea ice is real and not due to some error http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/28/whats-really-happening-in-antarctica/

[knocker]

NASA update Antarctic record sea ice is real and not due to some error http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/28/whats-really-happening-in-antarctica/

 

Just to be absolutely clear about this Keith is your, "NASA update Antarctic record sea ice is real and not due to some error" and link an official rebuttal of the recent paper (In which the problems are well explained http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/data-are-ugly.html) by NASA or in fact mainly a criticism by the CATO Institute and a not very detailed one at that.

 

I think readers deserve clarity as the Cato Institute in Washington, a self-described libertarian "think tank" that is funded by (among others), the fossil fuels industries. Its founders and chief backers include the infamous Koch brothers who regularly support anti-science causes. Cato used to be well-respected in Washington as a source of non-scientific libertarian theory, but in recent years it has followed the right wing mantra of ignoring facts to pursue its agenda.

 

Just a thought.

[4wd]

Just to be absolutely clear about this Keith is your, "NASA update Antarctic record sea ice is real and not due to some error" and link an official rebuttal of the recent paper (In which the problems are well explained http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/data-are-ugly.html) by NASA or in fact mainly a criticism by the CATO Institute and a not very detailed one at that.

 

I think readers deserve clarity as the Cato Institute in Washington, a self-described libertarian "think tank" that is funded by (among others), the fossil fuels industries. Its founders and chief backers include the infamous Koch brothers who regularly support anti-science causes. Cato used to be well-respected in Washington as a source of non-scientific libertarian theory, but in recent years it has followed the right wing mantra of ignoring facts to pursue its agenda.

 

Just a thought.

Come off it, in any case the supposed data error (in 1991?) was a trivial amount and had no bearing on the recent large increases.It's NASA saying that in fact they were already aware of the issue and the increases are real. 

[Polar Maritime]

Come off it, in any case the supposed data error (in 1991?) was a trivial amount and had no bearing on the recent large increases.

It's NASA saying that in fact they were already aware of the issue and the increases are real.

 

 

Where have they said this?

[Nights King]

Where have they said this?

 

You can find the full version here - http://www.livescience.com/46914-antarctica-sea-ice-expansion-controversy.html

 

"The apparent expansion is real and not due to an error in a previous data set uncovered by the Eisenman et al paper," that scientist, NASA's Josefino Comiso, wrote in a response to the new study that he sent to Live Science. "That error has already been corrected and the expansion being reported now has also been reported by other groups as well using different techniques."

[keithlucky]

Antarctica’s Point of No Return

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/anders-levermann-explains-why-nothing-can-be-done-to-halt-the-collapse-of-the-amundsen-sea-s-ice-shelf

 

Can you spot the west Antarctica ice shelf a tiny area in this huge expanse

[cheeky_monkey]

Can you spot the west Antarctica ice shelf a tiny area in this huge expanse

Cant spot anything im afraid as the link doesn't work?

[knocker]

Antarctic ice sheet is result of CO2 decrease, not continental breakup

 

Climate modelers have shown that the most likely explanation for the initiation of Antarctic glaciation during a major climate shift 34 million years ago was decreased carbon dioxide levels. The finding counters a 40-year-old theory suggesting massive rearrangements of Earth's continents caused global cooling and the abrupt formation of the Antarctic ice sheet. It will provide scientists insight into the climate change implications of current rising global CO2 levels.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140730141020.htm

[Buriedundersnow]

Antarctic ice concentration anomaly chart says all that needs to be said about the increases we are seeing in the middle chart and that was june I bet july is going to look good aswell

 

 

[4wd]

Antarctic ice sheet is result of CO2 decrease, not continental breakup

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140730141020.htm

 

Fanciful.Single IssueResearch

[knocker]

Fanciful.Single IssueResearch

 

Are these crossword clues or your meaningful thought out scientific critique of a scientific paper?

[Gray-Wolf]

I'd always thought that the drop in CO2 was the thing that facilitated year round ice across the continent knocks? This is why I have such concerns about its long term future? If we have a relationship between temp and CO2 then sections of the old 'carbon cycle' lie buried beneath that ice ( and not all at the bottom of the Southern oceans!) meaning that any level of de-glaciation exposes that carbon to the atmosphere. I remember  a paper in 2012 advising us that vast quantities of methane lie beneath the southern continent's ice and so we face ( over the long term) the re-introduction of that carbon back into the carbon cycle?

 

We see the same with the Arctic and Greenland and the reserves of 'past carbon cycles' stored there?

[Nights King]

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/06/10/4021650.htm  - Antarctic volcanoes add to sea level rise

 

 

Not sure if this has already been posted but thought it might be of interest.

[Gray-Wolf]

Thanks M83! i think we had seen it but you brought it forward in a far nicer manner than the last poster!!!!

 

With Thwaites being eaten back into its channel by warmer ocean waters we are about to see the snout extend back into an open basin like feature exposing a much longer calving front so a much faster rate of loss ( the cork will be out of the bottle!) If the upstream ice is exposed to basal heating from the rift then we could see this translate to varying loss rates from the snout as warmer 'pulses/fluxes' allow surges from the upper elevations? 

[knocker]

Final version of our paper on recent mass balance of Pine Island and Thwaites glaciers, West Antarctica: http://www.the-cryosphere.net/8/1375/2014/tc-8-1375-2014.html â€¦

[Gray-Wolf]

I wonder if the 'level off' of discharge is geographical (choke point at calving front) climatic (nina forcings) or a combination of the two?

[knocker]

I wonder if the 'level off' of discharge is geographical (choke point at calving front) climatic (nina forcings) or a combination of the two?

 

I noticed other studies had similar findings GW.

 

 

Several model simulations from this region (e.g., Joughin et al., 2010; Favier et al., 2014; Joughin et al., 2014) exhibit a similar pattern of accelerated loss followed by aperiod of sustained and stable high loss.

[knocker]

Quite an interesting video. To my uneducated eye the timing of the destruction of the ozone layer takes on more significance. Of course it's all a conspiracy.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4056545.htm#.U9oZ2hSuyNk.twitter