Snow and remaining snow patches

[firefly]

Thanks, Spindrift.

Yes indeed. I'm interested in the Scottish Borders. The snow you're observing is almost certainly from the falls of late November, early December. These will be the ones that are the most consolidated (i.e. hardy), and will persist longer than the ones that have formed in the last 4 weeks.

The Corserine patches are of particular interest, because of their aspect. I've looked at the map, and am guessing the patches are more on the 750m contour, rather than on the brow of the slope. Is this correct? Interesting about the southerly aspect patches. Whereabouts on the hill is it? If you're able to keep watch on these and let me know when they vanish then that'd be very helpful indeed.

Thanks,

ff

[spindrift1980]

Thanks, Spindrift.

Yes indeed. I'm interested in the Scottish Borders. The snow you're observing is almost certainly from the falls of late November, early December. These will be the ones that are the most consolidated (i.e. hardy), and will persist longer than the ones that have formed in the last 4 weeks.

The Corserine patches are of particular interest, because of their aspect. I've looked at the map, and am guessing the patches are more on the 750m contour, rather than on the brow of the slope. Is this correct? Interesting about the southerly aspect patches. Whereabouts on the hill is it? If you're able to keep watch on these and let me know when they vanish then that'd be very helpful indeed.

Thanks,

ff

Yes, the Corserine patches are more on the 750m contour, pretty much spot-on with your positioning (I read off the wrong contour) - I have some photos which show these and the snow at Polmaddy Gairy (and the distant snow in the Merrick area) though the files seem too big to upload here. The south-facing patches are smaller and are at approximately 505867 on the south aspect of the spur which runs south-east from the summit towards the North Gairy Top.

I'd be interested to see when these go although I don't imagine they'll last too far into April. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'll be back in the Galloway area before then, but will have a look if I am. I will be in North Wales in a few weeks though so will see if anything remains there then and will likely be in the Cairngorms and other parts of the Highlands over the summer and autumn.

[firefly]

Thanks, Spindrift.

If you want to email me the photographs my address is [email protected]. I'd appreciate a look at them. All observations from southern Scotland and northern England are most welcome.

[Norrance]

A bit off topic but am on holiday in Tenerife at the momemt and the snow patches here are at least 1000 mtrs down from the same time last year on Teide and the surrounding hills due to the big storm in early March that brought snow down to 1000 mtrs in this area. Meanwhile hit 27c here today on the coast. I suppose I must be the only one here who is looking at the snow patches and how far down the mountain they are?

[firefly]

Yup!

I'm the same when I go abroad, if it's any consolation?

[spindrift1980]

A bit closer to home and these 20C+ days seem to be taking their toll on the southern Highlands. Hardly any remaining patches to be seen in the Arrochar area yesterday (albeit I didn't see any north or east-facing slopes of the biggest hills). There are 3 or 4 small patches on the south face of Beinn Ime. There are some small patches on Ben Donich at 700-800m, but there didn't seem to be anything visible on Ben Lomond from the A82. I'm told that there is still some remaining snow on the N-E aspects of Ben Lomond - certainly I saw that there was a fair amount still there on 3 April.

Edited April 11, 2011 by spindrift1980

[firefly]

I've seen snow melt on Ben Lomond's south face earlier than April before, so nothing exceptional in that. The temperatures, however, are exceptional. Still a wee bit hanging on by the 10th April, according to this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonjc/5607818164/sizes/l/in/set-72157626345845137/

[stewfox]

A bit off topic but am on holiday in Tenerife at the momemt and the snow patches here are at least 1000 mtrs down from the same time last year on Teide and the surrounding hills due to the big storm in early March that brought snow down to 1000 mtrs in this area. Meanwhile hit 27c here today on the coast. I suppose I must be the only one here who is looking at the snow patches and how far down the mountain they are?

Afaid not, I didnt see any snow patches when I was there in January but I was looking from a long distance and hence of no scientific value. That makes 2 of us B)

[HGrout]

Went up to the cafe at Hartside on the way to Alston on friday & there we're still about 5 patches on the northern side of cross fell.

Then on Sunday i climbed Helvellyn on sunday and there are still about 10 patches on their, some about 25 metres long & up to about 1.5 m deep maybe abit more.

You could also see a snow patch on Raise another on Fairfield & a few in the distance on the Sca fells!

Most walkers we're in t-shirts and shorts some just in shorts!

There we're even people taking a full dip in Red tarn.

Maybe these patches will get topped up in the next few days as summit temps are forecast just above frezing in the next few days!

[Rob]

definately not here lol

[Roger J Smith]

June snow watch

_________________________

The latest guidance shows potential for higher elevation snow in Northern Ireland (and nearby counties of Ireland), northwest England and western Scotland, with the risk peaking on Tuesday and Wednesday. I think the snow is likely to fall above 500m but there may be some brief falls of sleet or wet snow lower than that. I wonder if any NW members will see any snow during this episode.

A cold swirl of subarctic low pressure is sitting southeast of Iceland at this time, drifting towards Donegal and Northern Ireland. It should arrive there late Monday or early Tuesday and reinforce the already rather chilly and moist air masses with near-record cold (for daytime hours especially) that will hold temperatures even near sea level below 10 C and give highs of only 6-8 C at some relatively low elevations. A bit higher up it could be as cold as 3-4 C and rain could change over to sleet or snow. Would think that the highest summits will see snow for certain, and the most likely changeover elevation will be 500-600m but this can always come down lower due to condensation cooling processes.

Even without snow this will be uncomfortably cold and miserable weather that will seem no better than mid-winter especially in the region most likely to be affected, where snow is not that frequent at lower elevations even in real winter.

Further south, it won't be a whole lot better, but with more of a showery unstable pattern, would expect highs of 12-14 C in warmer parts of the south, hail showers developing due to the low freezing levels, and the odd break of sunshine to help boil up the shower clouds.

Waiting for the first snow reports then (would not rule out the Peak District at least near the peak of the Peak District).

[Nick L]

Snow in June - brilliant

[ZONE 51]

GFS - 500hpa midnight monday

looking through the data/charts i would actually be very excited if you are in the risk areas especially, the fact snow could fall in june is amazing and as we know it has done before, but it is rare-even over the hills, although less rare for mountains of course. il be keeping track of this, and thanks RJS for highlighting this, i would have spotted it at some point-just not really looking for snow in summer! i saw the charts but it just did not click of the possibility, i do look for hail but snow never crossed my mind..:lol: be fun to track this.

Edited June 6, 2011 by ElectricSnowStorm

[Roger J Smith]

This map, which should update automatically, shows how cold the air mass is behind the low:

http://en.vedur.is/weather/observations/areas/

and you can get more detailed regional maps by clicking on "east fjords" ... basically the freezing level in Iceland right now is just inland and a few dozen metres above sea level.

This is bound to modify slightly but it's a good indication of how chilly the flow is.

[damianslaw]

The mountain weather forecasts for Highland Scotland suggest risk of snow at 800m or above from Wednesday onwards thanks to the very cold pool of air wrapped within the NW flank of the current low pressure system to our NW - any trough action will help pep up intensity of precipitation and lower dewpoints and allow for evaporative cooling - many walkers could be in for a bit of a shock. Though it is only early June and snow can easily fall above about 1000m in an unstable cold northerly at this time of year.

I'll be very surprised to see reports of snow on any of the lakeland fell tops and more especially the peak district or snowdonia. Those out walking come Thurs and Friday may see the odd sleety snowflake on ground above 900m in any heavy showers but that is probably about it. One thing though the windchill factor will make for a wintry feel on the fells for much of the week and hardly like early summer.

Snow has fallen in the past to quite low levels around here in early June but it is rare, June 1975 being a famous case. The last time any substantial snow fell on the fells in June was probably 1991 - the last proper cold June.

[Isolated Frost]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Amazing - snow in June! Only here!

[Roger J Smith]

Based on the weather on Tuesday in Ireland, watch out in northwest England, Wales, west Midlands, and southwest Scotland, for widespread hail storms during the daylight hours today. The upper low is now over the Irish Sea and Ulster, and drifting northeast. Over marine areas, it remains clear and inactive, but with a violently unstable lapse rate over land it quickly boils up to give heavy showers and hail. Some reports in Ireland on Tuesday mentioned long-lasting falls of hail near sea level and torrential rain that flooded motorways etc. At higher elevations where temperatures have fallen below 5 C, snow is still quite possible today.

These unstable, hail-producing conditions will spread further east and south during the day and will also be widespread on Thursday, in fact some of the coldest air at upper levels won't reach Ireland or NI until mid-day Thursday.

I think the main story of this outbreak will be hail, but snow is almost certain to fall at higher elevations too.

[ZONE 51]

just another..

some spectacular clouds coming up today with big anvil tops i would think. hail, and maybe wintry over the high tops? if we can get the updrafts to hold the hail up in the cloud tops-forming large hail, then we could be in for of course large hail, but it looks more likely to be small hail but intense?

Edited June 8, 2011 by ElectricSnowStorm

[The watcher]

Had a torrential downpour with some hail mixed in yesterday evening on my way to Belfast. Could see the ice splatters on my windscreen. In Dublin airport atm about to head to my festival week in Donington.

[ZONE 51]

just posting the upper temp chart..

[DaBrigg]

I notice there's been a slight upgrade of the intensity of the cold pool crossing Ireland tonight, if the GFS is to be believed..

500-1000 thicknesses at Dublin Airport are now expected to fall to 529dam during the early hours of Friday morning, where as previous runs all week had been forecasting it to bottom out around 531dam.

GFS sampled points- EIDW

[feb1991blizzard]

What an excellent thread, i never knew this existed. A thread where you can talk about cold weather and snow all the year round without being slated. Thanks to Roger for his expert knowledge in the field of summer snow setups, i will view this thread on a daily basis now. Will there be a July and August version as well? i mean we have had -4 in July on Ben nevis before but i have never heard of snow in July before.

[spindrift1980]

There have been quite a few appreciable lying (though ephemeral) snowfalls on the highest Scottish hills during May, after a very warm April with wildfires etc - snow even down to 2000ft or so on occasion during mid-May. I think its probably safe to assume that there has been at least a bit of ephemeral wintriness on the highest tops during June so far though don't have any direct evidence of this! There was certainly a reliable report of fresh snow lying on the very tops of Cairn Toul, Ben Macdui, Braeriach in the Cairngorms on 31 May.

Overall, the remaining winter snow remnants in the Scottish highlands are very limited for the time of year though - warm April took its toll. Amounts are more typical for early July than early June. Suspect all snow might melt this autumn for the first time since 2006 and only the sixth time since 1900 - hopefully not though (but that's for another thread)!

Will hopefully spot some falling/lying snow out and about this weekend!

Edited June 9, 2011 by spindrift1980

[ZONE 51]

Thanks to Roger for his expert knowledge in the field of summer snow setups

quite rare but its worth a try!

imagine is we did have snow storms as part of summer-sudden swift icy blasts then back to hot!

Something i was wondering that may be answered quite well on here is - are we experiencing more colder upper temps then normal through all seasons, and are we getting deeper cold uppers than would be the usual case when they do come? for example we have unusually cold 500 charts coming through, and its summer!

Edited June 10, 2011 by ElectricSnowStorm

[Radiating Dendrite]

I would not say that it is unusual, snow has been recorded in the UK in June even on lower ground in the past.

In terms of colder uppers all year round, there is no evidence really supporting such a theory. The uppers are not any colder than usual, it is the positioning of these uppers that has the biggest influence. The coldest uppers experienced in the UK in the last century was during the 1987 cold spell, with -20s getting within touching distance.

Compare this to last December:

You could quite easily argue that uppers are now warmer than was the previous case.