Snow and remaining snow patches

[TonyH]

Snow on Snowdon today:

My link

Edited June 10, 2011 by Tonyh

[4wd]

Snow on Snowdon today:

My link

It looks like hail in the picture, but the report says hail followed by snow falling.

This was on the moors here today. (car said 5C - at 6pm)

Annoyingly back home we stayed bone dry and drought stricken.

It's hail

[TonyH]

Snow at 1000m up on Snowdon is not unheard of, even in June.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Tonyh

[Guest]

There have been quite a few appreciable lying (though ephemeral) snowfalls on the highest Scottish hills during May, after a very warm April with wildfires etc - snow even down to 2000ft or so on occasion during mid-May. I think its probably safe to assume that there has been at least a bit of ephemeral wintriness on the highest tops during June so far though don't have any direct evidence of this! There was certainly a reliable report of fresh snow lying on the very tops of Cairn Toul, Ben Macdui, Braeriach in the Cairngorms on 31 May.

Overall, the remaining winter snow remnants in the Scottish highlands are very limited for the time of year though - warm April took its toll. Amounts are more typical for early July than early June. Suspect all snow might melt this autumn for the first time since 2006 and only the sixth time since 1900 - hopefully not though (but that's for another thread)!

Will hopefully spot some falling/lying snow out and about this weekend!

I travelled up to Oban a couple of weeks ago through my work and there was snow on some of the peaks on the way up. We passed through a heavy rain to sleet shower just before Crianlarich on the way up; the temp fell from 7C to 3.5C in a matter of a couple of minutes even at a relatively low level.

I would hazard a guess and say snow is possible in any month on the higher peaks in Scotland, nothing unusual.

[4wd]

No need to 'guess' it's quite common on the really high peaks like Ben Nevis you can be caught in snow even in July and August.

[damianslaw]

I would not say that it is unusual, snow has been recorded in the UK in June even on lower ground in the past.

In terms of colder uppers all year round, there is no evidence really supporting such a theory. The uppers are not any colder than usual, it is the positioning of these uppers that has the biggest influence. The coldest uppers experienced in the UK in the last century was during the 1987 cold spell, with -20s getting within touching distance.

Compare this to last December:

You could quite easily argue that uppers are now warmer than was the previous case.

Yes our coldest uppers come from deep drawn easterlies from the depths of russia. Arctic air is modified as it crosses the norweigen sea and it is rare to see uppers below -15 degrees from a arctic northerly or northeasterly. However, it is the weather which will dictate just how cold it gets - our coldest conditions normally occur under ridges and high pressure cells with light winds and preferably snow cover - uppers of -5 degrees in such conditions can deliver much colder nights than uppers of -15 degrees with a strong wind and cloud cover as happened in Jan 1987. Indeed conditions in the week running up to christmas last year were very cold in the north and northern ireland on a par with Jan 87 in terms of maxima but much colder in terms of minima despite much higher uppers.

[TonyH]

No snow, but ground frost past 2 nights and just missed an air frost today, min +0.1c.

Have had a June air frost a few years ago though.

[Norrance]

No need to 'guess' it's quite common on the really high peaks like Ben Nevis you can be caught in snow even in July and August.

There was a couple of inches fresh on the Ben yesterday down to around 3700 feet. Since the end of April snow has fallen on the higher Munroes on numerous occasions but doesn't usually stay that long.

[feb1991blizzard]

Very unlikely to veryfy but if it did there is a chance of some sleet or wet snow for Ben Nevis.

[spindrift1980]

MWIS going for snow above 900m in the highlands on Thursday

http://www.mwis.org.uk/mountain/WH.PDF

We'll see...at least if the weather refuses to behave like summer it does allow for the opportunity of midsummer snow-ramping!

[firefly]

A bit late in coming this year, but I hope the wait will be worth it!

As some of you may have known (or guessed), the very warm April weather decimated the existing snow-patches in England and Wales, and to a lesser extent in Scotland. Couple this with the remarkable lack of snow during the second half of winter and we were looking at the least amount of snow in England at the end of April for quite a few years. Wales fared even poorer, with snow vanishing by the first week of April. Its last snow was on Carnedd Llewelyn.

The snow that did survive in May was, unlike 2010 where it persisted in the Peak District until the 5th, confined to Cross Fell and a few locations in the Lake District. Unlike last year, the honour of having the longest-lying patch in England & Wales fell to Great End, where a wreath persisted until 8th May. I am publishing a paper on this in Weather in a couple of months' time, so keep your eyes peeled if you're a subscriber!

In Scotland, the general level of cover was reasonably average at the end of March. However, April seems to have gotten confused and swapped places with May. As a result, snow was stripped at a rate of knots from lower-lying elevations, so that by the time May came it looked more like the start of June on the hills. May, though, signalled a return to cooler weather. Fresh snow was evident even on the webcams right through the month. So much so, in fact, that the heavy falls of the 16th May were still evident 2 weeks later on Aonach Mor, by Ben Nevis. One local observer reported a net gain of snow in May at the long-lying sites of Aonach Mor.

The cool pattern continued into June, with further falls of snow reported. I myself was up Ben Nevis on the 11th June, and ate my sandwiches on the summit during a snow shower. I cooled my drink in the remains of a drift that had formed overnight in fresh snow.

In terms of the volume of snow that endure at present, we are still behind the game in terms of the last few years. However, the loss we saw in April has most definitely been stymied by the subsequent cool weather. This is very similar to the 'summer' of 2007. There wasn't a huge amount of snow around after winter, but a cool and wet summer meant that big patches survived until winter. Notably at Aonach Beag (920m altitude patch), which was over 50m long at time of new snows.

The next month will be crucial to whether any snow persists through until new falls of autumn. If you'd asked me 6 weeks ago would any survived I'd have said no. However, I'm more optimistic now and have my fingers crossed! As always, keep up-to-date with snow-patches on my flickr site, which is here: http://www.flickr.co...57626414064604/

[summer blizzard]

Very interesting.

Do you have the first lying snow dates for 2007 onwards?

[firefly]

First lying dates or lasting snow dates?

[firefly]

Sorry, mods! Didn't see this thread when I posted my own one...

Anyway, I see there is some debate as to how likely summer snowfalls are. As I type this, the temperature on top of Cairn Gorm is 0 Celcius, and the rain radar is showing some showers. Almost certainly fresh snow will have fallen overnight. However, snow in June is not unusual on the high tops. June is the third least snowy month in Scotland, beaten by July, and the least snowy month of them all, August.

Adam Watson, a colleague of mine, has been observing the Cairngorms snow for the best part of 70 years. In his time he has seen fresh snow in 12 Julys and 8 Augusts. The total number of days when he has seen no snow in July is 12, and 19 in August. The longest run of dates in either of these months without snow ever being known is 7-13th August and 21-27th August. Fresh snow has been known every other day of the year, including all dates in September and June.

The last time we had fresh snow in August on the Cairngorms was actually last year (2010). It snowed down to 3600 ft on the 28th August.

[Terminal Moraine]

I look forward to your piece in Weather, Firefly. Keep the reports coming, I never tire of reading about the state of the snow patches in the mountains. If only we had a few left around here!

[feb1991blizzard]

Just wondered if anyone knows whether there has ever been snow in England in July or August and how often it happens and what the lowest ever recorded temperature in those months is?

[firefly]

Just wondered if anyone knows whether there has ever been snow in England in July or August and how often it happens and what the lowest ever recorded temperature in those months is?

Heavy snow fell to 500m on Skiddaw (Lake District) on the 11th July 1888. Also, although not fresh snow, in 1979 the last patch to vanish in England was on the 18th August on the Cross Fell range of hills. The chart for the 11th July 1888 can be seen here.

Intriguingly, there were reports of snow falling on that day in London, but I find that almost impossible to believe.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Philip Eden had a discussion of this in his book Weatherwise, noting that temperatures in the London area were highly inconsistent with falling sleet or snow, but that the reports of snow on high ground, including Skiddaw, were probably genuine.

TORRO has a list of lowest temperatures recorded in each summer month:

http://www.torro.org.uk/site/mintemps.php

Incidentally, sleet and snow have been noted at low levels in northern England on two occasions since the famous 2nd June 1975 event- 7th June 1985 and 3rd June 1991. There was a snow event in early June 2009 which was confined to high ground only.

[summer blizzard]

First lying dates or lasting snow dates?

Both if you have them.

[Harve]

Philip Eden had a discussion of this in his book Weatherwise, noting that temperatures in the London area were highly inconsistent with falling sleet or snow, but that the reports of snow on high ground, including Skiddaw, were probably genuine.

TORRO has a list of lowest temperatures recorded in each summer month:

http://www.torro.org...te/mintemps.php

Incidentally, sleet and snow have been noted at low levels in northern England on two occasions since the famous 2nd June 1975 event- 7th June 1985 and 3rd June 1991. There was a snow event in early June 2009 which was confined to high ground only.

Not northern England, but I think someone on a different weather site reported snow down to 400m in the Brecon Beacons earlier this month!

[firefly]

Both if you have them.

Don't have both in front of me at present, but here are the dates of lasting snow at Scotland's snow-patches:

2007: 4th October (Cairngorms), 13th November (Nevis range)

2008: 1st October (Cairngorms), 20th October (Nevis range)

2009: 1st October (Cairngorms), 5th November (Nevis range)

2010: 20th October (Cairngorms), 3rd November (Nevis range)

[cheeky_monkey]

snow piles from winter still hanging around on the edges of the city..although much reduced

[Staffordshire]

snow piles from winter still hanging around on the edges of the city..although much reduced

Where are you?

[cheeky_monkey]

Where are you?

says in my description..i live in Edmonton Alberta, Canada

[stewfox]

snow piles from winter still hanging around on the edges of the city..although much reduced

Your kidding ??

Any pictures ??

Have Spa put on a special for Sprite

So many questions.