Winter 2011/12 - General Discussion

[sundog]

Yes, I was and I also lived through 62/63.

Apart from several exceptional cold weeks in December 2010, along with an extremely cold last week of November, last winter was acually rubblish. Not a drop of snow after boxing day, an average January and an extremely mild February. Just when i was thinking it would be a repeat of 62/63 the whole thing went pear shaped and completely fizzled out.

The only winter that comes anywhere close to what i remember from my childhood was 2009/2010, and even that wasn't a patch on 62/63. In fact, it didn't even compare to either 78/79 or 81/82.

Seems that some people on this forum don't know what a REAL winter is.

Well for me personnally the cold spell of Dec 2010 was probably the best cold spell i ever experianced. I wasnt around for winter 62/63 but that was a one in 200 yr event type thing. We cant get very cold spells or winters every year,this is the British isles after all in fairness.

[leicsnow]

Yes, I was and I also lived through 62/63.

Apart from several exceptional cold weeks in December 2010, along with an extremely cold last week of November, last winter was acually rubblish. Not a drop of snow after boxing day, an average January and an extremely mild February. Just when i was thinking it would be a repeat of 62/63 the whole thing went pear shaped and completely fizzled out.

The only winter that comes anywhere close to what i remember from my childhood was 2009/2010, and even that wasn't a patch on 62/63. In fact, it didn't even compare to either 78/79 or 81/82.

Seems that some people on this forum don't know what a REAL winter is.

Given what you've just said, I don't think you could ever be satisfied with any winter we will experience!

If you were disappointed with last winter then there isn't much you wouldn't be disappointed with!

[Aaron]

62/63 was not snowy for most people, just cold. Some people got their deepest ever snow in December 2010 and almost the coldest December ever.

[Peter H]

62/63 was not snowy for most people, just cold. Some people got their deepest ever snow in December 2010 and almost the coldest December ever.

Might be an idea to take a look at Mike Tullet's daily summery and the synoptic charts as well.

It was certainly extremely snowy in this part of the UK. I can still remember snowdrifts several feet high in April:

http://www.mtullett.plus.com/1962-63/

Edited January 31, 2012 by Peter H

[Peter H]

Given what you've just said, I don't think you could ever be satisfied with any winter we will experience!

If you were disappointed with last winter then there isn't much you wouldn't be disappointed with!

I'd be happy with the winters I experienced as a child. Every winter in the sixties had at least one, maybe two or three snow events and a lot were frosty. None of this December through to the end of February with no frost or snow whatsoever. That was unheard of until the late eighties onwards. Winters like this (i.e. very little frost and snowless) are now commonplace and what I experienced as a child has now become the exception rather than the rule. In my opinion, the climate in this country has definitely changed.

I agree late November and December 2010 were quite exceptional (I've never experienced snow like that in late November) but it simply stopped after Boxing Day. Take December out of the equation and the winter was actually very mild, February exceptionally so. Even the Alps were having severe problems with the lack of snow in the latter part of the 2010/2011 winter, so how can it have been a good one ?

As I have said, just when I thought we were going to have something quite extraordinary, the whole thing went pear shaped and fizzled out.

This winter has certainly been one of the mildest I've experienced in recent years. If nothing comes off in February, one of the most snowless ones as well.

2009/2010 was something closer to what all winters in the sixties were like, and probably the best since 81/82.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Peter H

[johnholmes]

62/63 was not snowy for most people, just cold. Some people got their deepest ever snow in December 2010 and almost the coldest December ever.

perhaps you are taking the michael?

if you had posted one of the coldest and longest lasting winters for temperature then okay.

I suspect that parts of Leeds in that winter had fairly large snowfalls as did many other areas of the country-so how about some accuracy please?

[Aaron]

What are you going on about? I said 62/63 was cold but it certainly was not memorable for any large snowfalls for most of the country. How exactly is that inaccurate?

[Alex95]

What are you going on about? I said 62/63 was cold but it certainly was not memorable for any large snowfalls for most of the country. How exactly is that inaccurate?

Not as snowy as 46/47, but still very snowy. I've seen pictures of snowdrifts in NE England which reach my Grandparents' rooftop, and I think level depths were widely 60cm in NE England. Even in 1979 the maximum depth in Newcastle was 50cm, and 50-100cm (?) in 1947. 1963 delivered the most snow in the NE and SW I believe.

FWIW, in Nov-Dec 2010 depths were generally 30-60cm in NE England, and 20-30cm in Jan 2010.

Edited January 31, 2012 by alza

[bobbydog]

What are you going on about? I said 62/63 was cold but it certainly was not memorable for any large snowfalls for most of the country. How exactly is that inaccurate?

from wikipedia-

February 1963

In February 1963 more snow came. It was also stormy with winds reaching Force 8 on the Beaufort scale (gale force winds).

A 36-hour blizzard caused heavy drifting snow in most parts of the country. Drifts reached 20 feet (6.1 m) in some areas. Gale force winds howled with wind speeds reaching up to 81 mph (130 km/h). On the Isle of Man, wind speeds were recorded at 119 mph (191 km/h).

not memorable?.... when have you seen 20 foot snowdrifts in this country?....

[Peter H]

RTE are confidently predicting the mild southwesterlies will dominate by the weekend, with temperatures up to 11/12 by the early days of next week.

The BBC are still saying it's very uncertain though, and the cold air could still win out.

Who do we believe ? Met Éireann or the UK Met Office ?

I hope Met Éireann are wrong, but I'm not optomistic.

[Peter H]

What are you going on about? I said 62/63 was cold but it certainly was not memorable for any large snowfalls for most of the country. How exactly is that inaccurate?

Huh ?

I remember several feet of snow and that was in the middle of Belfast.Buses attepting to get down the Creagagh Road (a main arterial road) had to stop and turn back. Since when did that ever happen since ? Even 78/79 or 81/82 wasn't as bad as that.

http://www.mtullett.plus.com/1962-63/1Feb-1963.htm

Synoptic Situation at 0600 01/02/1963 day after next

High, 1048mb, lies SW of Iceland and is linked to High, 1040mb, over central

Scandinavia. Trough is moving W across the Br.Isles, followed by clearer

and drier air. Pressure remains low in the Mediterranean and near the

Azores.

Weather over the British Isles:

Snow fell in many places during the whole period but was more in the form of

showers in the N.

Maxima: Gatwick 0C, Guernsey 1C, Plymouth 3C, Cardiff 2C, Birmingham 2C,

Watnall 3C, Manchester 3C, Newcastle 4C, Dyce 2C, Eskdalemuir 2C, Glasgow

4C, Wick 3C, Lerwick 2C, Tiree 5C, Belfast 4C, Birr 4C and Valentia 4C.

Minima: Gatwick -6C, Guernsey -1C, Plymouth 0C, Cardiff -2C,

Birmingham -4C, Watnall -4C (-12), Manchester -2C, Newcastle 0C, Dyce 0C,

Eskdalemuir -1C, Glasgow 1C, Wick 1C, Lerwick 0C, Tiree 2C, Belfast -1C,

Birr -3C and Valentia -1C.

[Aaron]

I didn't say EVERYWHERE.. my point was that the snow of 62/63 was largely overshadowed simply by the length of the cold and the snow cover. Stop picking arguments with people will you?

Edited January 31, 2012 by Aaron

[jean91]

going to be fairly cold in Northeastern France even for their standards.Not much end in sight for models so far!!!

http://www.meteo-metz.com/previsions.php

[Les Penniston]

.

When I was young the weather was oh so different.

Always at least one period of snow in the winter, long cold frosty nights (days when the frost never lifted) and you could put water out on the path and it would freeze within a few minutes. Even when it did rain, it was nearly always preceded by snow in the winter.

As for summers, always 3 or 4 weeks of sunny warm weather and a few thunderstorms.

None of this seemingly endless wet and windy weather with constant rain. .

All I'd like is a return to the climate of my childhood, not this miserable one.

In my opinion, the UK's weather has changed in the last 40-50 years.

I quite agree everything seemed different when we was younger we only remember the time we want to ?

I wouldnt have said the summers have been too bad although 2007 was a wet one.

Endless wet and windy weather again i dont think so we are in a drought here so no constant rain.

Whats happened in the past has gone and the weather in our part of the world will change over the years.

Regards

Les

[La Bise]

My week-end is shaping up to be a proper winter experience. 20cm of snow today and maximas of -10c by friday (when I land in Gva...). Bring it on! Probably the one thing I miss the most, proper seasons... ;-)

Sorry chaps...I'll be thinking of you when there

[sundog]

I'd love a good dumping of snow.

[SnowObsessor90]

Like the winter itself, February could go very well down as the month that promised so much yet delivered so little.

Hope I'm wrong but it ain't looking good at the minute.

[sebastiaan1973]

Some pictures from the Waddenzee. In the north of the Netherlands.

http://www.weerwoord.be/includes/forum_read.php?id=1555440&tid=1555440

[Thundery wintry showers]

Although 1962/63 was more notable for its prolonged severe cold than for its snowfalls (those of 1946/1947, 1978/79 and arguably 2009/10 had more noteworthy snow events), it was still an unusually snowy winter in the context of long-term averages. Snowfalls were very widespread between Boxing Day 1962 and the New Year. The persistence of easterly and north-easterly winds led to a strong west-east split across the northern two-thirds of the country, e.g. some coastal parts of Scotland and NW England had hardly any snow, while Durham in NE England had over 70mm of precipitation in both January and February 1963, most of it as snow.

It would certainly have felt like a much snowier winter than 2009/10 away from sheltered western parts because of the persistence of snow cover- many places, even near sea level, were snow-covered continuously from Boxing Day through to the first week of March.

[Peter H]

Like the winter itself, February could go very well down as the month that promised so much yet delivered so little.

Hope I'm wrong but it ain't looking good at the minute.

Indeed, despite some outrageous headlines in the Daily Mirror today (2,000 a week could die from Arctic weather next week) current models seem to suggest, strongly now, that the southwesterlies will win out, initially at least.

However, there is still some faint hope:

http://www.metoffice...st_weather.html

UK Outlook for Monday 6 Feb 2012 to Wednesday 15 Feb 2012:

Eastern parts of the UK are likely to be cold, dry and bright at first on Monday. Western areas are more likely to be cloudy with rain, this falling as snow on high ground. The rain is likely to move slowly eastwards during Monday, with western areas becoming drier but staying rather cloudy. After this, northwesterly winds are likely to affect the UK, bringing showers to many northern and western areas, with a chance of further snow on hills, perhaps to lower levels in Scotland. It will also become rather windy at times. Central, southern and eastern areas should gradually become drier and brighter though. Temperatures are likely to be near or slightly below average for February, but it should be less cold than recent days.

Updated: 1216 on Wed 1 Feb 2012

We often get our best snow on Northwesteries rather than Easterlies.

UK Outlook for Thursday 16 Feb 2012 to Thursday 1 Mar 2012:

Temperatures will probably be around average at first, but cold weather looks likely to prevail during this period, with both daytime maximum and night-time minimum temperatures likely to be below average for much of the time. Rainfall amounts will probably be near or below average in many areas, but possibly above average over southern Britain, and with below average temperatures expected there is the potential for snow at times.

Updated: 1219 on Wed 1 Feb 2012

Overall, February could still be the coldest month of the winter..

Incidentally, January in this part of the UK was completely frost free, apart from a temporary frost on Friday evening (gone by morning). That really sums up the mildness of this winter.

.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Peter H

[kold weather]

Amazing as it sounds a CET below 2C for Feb will likely give an average, maybe even slightly below average winter overall...

Whilst the first 2 months have been far from average, its amazing what one cold month can do to the mean...

[Steve C]

Yes, I was and I also lived through 62/63.

Apart from several exceptional cold weeks in December 2010, along with an extremely cold last week of November, last winter was acually rubblish. Not a drop of snow after boxing day, an average January and an extremely mild February. Just when i was thinking it would be a repeat of 62/63 the whole thing went pear shaped and completely fizzled out.

The only winter that comes anywhere close to what i remember from my childhood was 2009/2010, and even that wasn't a patch on 62/63. In fact, it didn't even compare to either 78/79 or 81/82.

Seems that some people on this forum don't know what a REAL winter is.

Seems like you are incorrect on the winter of 2009-10.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/2010/winter.html

The winter of 81-82, although cold, from early December until the second week of January (with record low temperatures, around the second week in December and 10th January 1982) then became 'Atlantic'. It certainly did in this part of the World.

Anyway, why are you whining at people here? They've ,made predictions in good faith, whether they are right or wrong, optimistic or pessimistic etc. The weather will do what it wants to do.

Mind you, I have family in Ireland, although south of the border, in Co Mayo. I once thought about moving back there, but having kept an eye on their recent summers, I'm glad I didn't! - the main thing that actually stopped me was the ridiculous property prices there, at the time. Last summer was mediocre here, but nowhere near as bad (constant stream of depressions) as there. I'd find this too miserable.

[Peter H]

[seems like you are incorrect on the winter of 2009-10.

http://www.metoffice...010/winter.html

Hardly:

[Mean temperatures over the UK were 2.0 °C below the 1971-2000 average during December, 2.4 °C below average during January and 1.6 °C below average during February. The UK mean temperature for the winter was 1.6 °C, which is 2.0 °C below average, making it the coldest winter since 1978/79

I did say in recent years. 2009/2010 is more like what I was used to as a child. The end of November 2010 was quite exceptional, along with most of December. However, winter 2010/2011 stopped on Boxing day and February was exceptionally mild (January 2011 was simply an averagte3 winter month.

[Anyway, why are you whining at people here?

I'm not whining. Only stating that some people posting on this forum don't, or haven't experienced, what a real winter actually is.

A January with only one night of temporary frost was unheard of when I was young. Even the cold spell last week was simply a few days of rather cold weather, and we're now back into mild westerlies with tempteratures up to 9/10 in the early days of next week. Hardly Earth shattering.

Still, some forecasting models are predicting the cold may be back at the end of next week with the possibility of a North or Northeasterly eventually. An airflow from that direction is more likely to bring snow to these parts.

[Neilsouth]

1979, 1991, 1983(?), and have been some noticable event's these last 4 years too..

Edited February 4, 2012 by Victor Meldrew

[Steve C]

Hardly:

I did say in recent years. 2009/2010 is more like what I was used to as a child. The end of November 2010 was quite exceptional, along with most of December. However, winter 2010/2011 stopped on Boxing day and February was exceptionally mild (January 2011 was simply an averagte3 winter month.

I'm not whining. Only stating that some people posting on this forum don't, or haven't experienced, what a real winter actually is.

A January with only one night of temporary frost was unheard of when I was young. Even the cold spell last week was simply a few days of rather cold weather, and we're now back into mild westerlies with tempteratures up to 9/10 in the early days of next week. Hardly Earth shattering.

Still, some forecasting models are predicting the cold may be back at the end of next week with the possibility of a North or Northeasterly eventually. An airflow from that direction is more likely to bring snow to these parts.

Read your quote again about the winter of 2009/10 - "it didn't even compare to either 78/79 or 81/82" - and then read the link again properly. People who post misinformation bug me.

Winter 2009/10 was overall colder than 81/82 pretty well everywhere. It states in that link that winter 2009/10 was comparable with 46/47 and 78/79 in Northern Ireland and only 62/63 was significantly colder. If you lived in England when you were younger, then the 78/79 comment could be valid. 81/82 doesn't even get a look in I'm afraid.