Greenland - What Do We Know, What Is The Long Term Future And Is There Any Evidence Of A Melt Out?

[Gray-Wolf]

Did Summit reach 1c on the 22nd?

 

My that was a fast 160yrs since the last melt at the summit! ( didn't folk here demand a 160yrs cycle for melt at the summit after the 2012 melt there????)

[Buriedundersnow]

looks like melt may not be too high in the next few weeks

 

WSI Energy Weather â€@WSI_Energy 44m

Fun Fact: It still snows over the North Pole during the Summer... Greenland to pick up 10-25" these next two weeks.

 

[stewfox]

looks like melt may not be too high in the next few weeks

 

WSI Energy Weather â€@WSI_Energy 44m

Fun Fact: It still snows over the North Pole during the Summer... Greenland to pick up 10-25" these next two weeks.

 

http:////f1.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_images/tctc91_simplify/attachicon.gifBtZftoyCcAELFTq.png

 

 

In need the melt rate back to average

 

'melt season' coming to a end shortly

 

 

[keithlucky]

http://beta.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/ Majority of Greenland has gained ice over the last year

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by keithlucky

[Devonian]

http://beta.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/ Majority of Greenland has gained ice over the last year

 

BUT!

 

"Note that the accumulated curve does not end at 0 at the end of the year. Over the year, it snows more than it melts, but calving of icebergs also adds to the total mass budget of the ice sheet. Satellite observations over the last decade show that the ice sheet is not in balance. The calving loss is greater than the gain from surface mass balance, and Greenland is losing mass at about 200 Gt/yr."

 

Source? Your link...

Edited August 5, 2014 by Devonian

[Gray-Wolf]

I see no mention of either mass loss via glacial calving nor the recently discovered ability of the accumulated snow cover to act as a sponge for melt water (keeping it fluid year round)? surely this 'newly discovered' added mass will make the ice sheet heavier? It stlll would not come close to the rates of accelerating mass loss though would it? As it is we are reducing the 'doubling period of Mass loss' recorded in less than a decade.....and we still have to see what 2012's losses would mean to that 'doubling period'?

 

And the other thing has to be the 'cold' year that Greenland had in melt season summer 13'? Are we now to see deniers use another base line for their comparisons? ( al la 98' super Nino for global temps?) pick an extreme weather year to show us all how 'average' climate ( joined up weather over a long period) compares????

[keithlucky]

BUT!

 

"Note that the accumulated curve does not end at 0 at the end of the year. Over the year, it snows more than it melts, but calving of icebergs also adds to the total mass budget of the ice sheet. Satellite observations over the last decade show that the ice sheet is not in balance. The calving loss is greater than the gain from surface mass balance, and Greenland is losing mass at about 200 Gt/yr."

 

Source? Your link...

Yes agreed but still showing gains i know there still a few weeks of melt season left but Greenland gaining mass right now.

Edited August 5, 2014 by keithlucky

[Devonian]

Yes agreed but still showing gains i know there still a few weeks of melt season left but Greenland gaining mass right now.

 

Keith, a bath with a tap running is gaining mass. But if more is flowing out of the plug then overall it's losing mass. A similar situation applies to the Greenland icecap does it not? Yes it's gaining mass but the more revealing description is it's gaining mass but losing it faster than it's gaining it. Don't you agree?

 

This kind of thing is my biggest complaint with AGW scepticism - it never paints the full picture. You post odd facts from here and there but, like this one about mass gain, you don't show the whole picture.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Devonian

[Gray-Wolf]

Squirrels Dev? Nero looking at a water fountain and saying "Fire?, what Fire?"

[stewfox]

Keith, a bath with a tap running is gaining mass. But if more is flowing out of the plug then overall it's losing mass. A similar situation applies to the Greenland icecap does it not? Yes it's gaining mass but the more revealing description is it's gaining mass but losing it faster than it's gaining it. Don't you agree?

 

This kind of thing is my biggest complaint with AGW scepticism - it never paints the full picture. You post odd facts from here and there but, like this one about mass gain, you don't show the whole picture.

 

If Greenland does ever warm I wonder if increased snow fall would off set any losses in the short term 50-100 years.

 

http://www.grida.no/photolib/collection/greenland-arctic-desert-and-northernmost-land-in-the-world

[Gray-Wolf]

I'd have a little think about that stew? How much snow , in metres, goes into a cubic metre of glacial ice? Do you see where I'm heading here?

 

As it is we are measuring vast reserves of snow melt in reservoirs below the surface so accumulated mass is occurring. Sadly I see this as a nasty  precurser to some pretty spectacular failures of the snow pack at high elevations ( mega avalanches) dropping vast areas of snow cover into lower elevations and melt ( you cannot build a watery layer under snow pack without severing it's contact to the ice below....... then gravity steps in and says "all this extra mass is making you a tad top heavy and unstable me Laddo!".........WHOOOOOOSH........

[stewfox]

Early refreeze  ?  as melt rate falls below average.

 

http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/

Edited August 9, 2014 by stewfox

[Gray-Wolf]

So we are seeing a mass loss doubling of 5 years from Antarctica/Greenland now?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28852980

 

For a world with no problems ( just natural cycles) and no warming since the late 90's this is a conundrum?

 

For those not alarmed, take a chess board and place a grain of rice on the first square...... on the next square double the amount of rice.......continue to double each adjacent square  right around the board......... how many grains are on the last square?

[Gray-Wolf]

 

I'm surprised stews not been all over this? he's kept us updated every time we dropped to 'average' so I'd have thought this far more interesting to see???

 

EDT: I see this rainfall event has captured other commentators imaginations too!!!

 

http://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/2014/08/21/greenlands-late-august-rain-over-melt-ponds-is-a-glacial-outburst-flood-hazard/#comments

 

As I've always posted here my main concerns over Greenland are not of slow 'drip,drip' type melt but of the periods better described as 'catastrophic melt pulses'. Be they mega avalanches, internal collapse or rainfall events they all stand to rapidly alter areas of the ice sheet and bring about 'lobe lowering' further enhancing melt.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Gray-Wolf

[knocker]

southern Greenland ice sheet intense melting 16-20 August 2014 produced record low surface reflectivity @PolarPortal http://polarportal.dk/en/groenlands-indlandsis/nbsp/isens-overflade/ â€¦

[stewfox]

 

I'm surprised stews not been all over this? he's kept us updated every time we dropped to 'average' so I'd have thought this far more interesting to see???

 

EDT: I see this rainfall event has captured other commentators imaginations too!!!

 

 

southern Greenland ice sheet intense melting 16-20 August 2014 produced record low surface reflectivity @PolarPortal http://polarportal.dk/en/groenlands-indlandsis/nbsp/isens-overflade/ â€¦

 

 

As I've always posted here my main concerns over Greenland are not of slow 'drip,drip' type melt but of the periods better described as 'catastrophic melt pulses'. Be they mega avalanches, internal collapse or rainfall events they all stand to rapidly alter areas of the ice sheet and bring about 'lobe lowering' further enhancing melt.

 

 

The 'tweet' says record low, for that week the report doesn't

 

I'm not sure what all the excitement is re some late season melt ??

[knocker]

The 'tweet' says record low, for that week the report doesn't

 

I'm not sure what all the excitement is re some late season melt ??

 

What excitement? It was a just a tweet from the Greenland Expert Jason Box, currently doing some connected important fieldwork in Greenland. Now if it was about vacuum cleaners or snow on Ben Nevis and an impending ice age, that's what I call excitement.

 

http://darksnow.org/the-stars-of-the-show/

[knocker]

what Greenland ice looks like after 2 months of melting and little snow http://ow.ly/i/6FhT9  http://ow.ly/i/6FhTl  http://ow.ly/i/6FhTz

[stewfox]

What excitement? It was a just a tweet from the Greenland Expert Jason Box, currently doing some connected important fieldwork in Greenland. Now if it was about vacuum cleaners or snow on Ben Nevis and an impending ice age, that's what I call excitement.

 

http://darksnow.org/the-stars-of-the-show/

 

Hopefully in 20/30 yrs time we can use the current field work as a base for reference

 

Follow a recent warm up of 7 days we can see the the surface Greenland melt back to normal

[knocker]

In Greenland, scientists who wish to understand ice loss will follow the water. Greenland mass loss is rising exponentially and leading to higher sea level rise.

[knocker]

Slate Exclusive: Why Greenland’s “Dark Snow†Should Worry You

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/09/16/jason_box_s_research_into_greenland_s_dark_snow_raises_more_concerns_about.html

[knocker]

Blue areas are where Greenland snow and ice had record lows in 2014; reds 2012; orange 2010; etc. August outstanding pic.twitter.com/4p1E8o83nw

 

August 2014 was lowest reflectivity on record for Greenland upper elevations pic.twitter.com/axvh2lJMdO

Edited September 17, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

Greenland Ice Sheet more vulnerable to climate change than previously thought

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-09/uoc-gis092614.php

[knocker]

GPS Animation: Glaciers are retreating: How can we measure the full ice loss?

[knocker]

A good example of science at work I feel.

 

Team advances understanding of the Greenland Ice Sheet’s meltwater channels

 

LOS ALAMOS, N.M., Oct. 1, 2014—An international research team’s field work, drilling and measuring melt rates and ice sheet movement in Greenland is showing that things are, in fact, more complicated than we thought.

 

http://www.lanl.gov/discover/news-release-archive/2014/October/10.01-greenlands-ice-sheets.php