Where did the quote button go?

[Paul]

5 minutes ago, Audaxian said:

what I've seen on other communities with a similar set up to what you're trialling now is that the "reply @mention" when hovered by the mouse or tapped on a mobile device brings up an overlay that shows the content from the replied-to post.

Thanks, I think on discourse it's a click to load the post contents inline, so certainly a similar idea to the one you're describing. I think something along those lines is definitely something I'd like us to be able to do, but it's another layer of dev work involved, so something that needs to go in the post-trial roadmap (if we continue on with this system), rather than a speedy thing we could drop in tomorrow. 

[I remember Atlantic 252]

means ignore feature is working now

[matt111]

Seems I was one of the few who knew about (and used) the quote selection feature beforehand

I'm in two minds about this change but I'm sure I'll get used to it and as others have said I have seen similar used elsewhere. I can definitely see how it makes the ignore feature work better though since we'll only see replies to whoever is being ignored rather than the actual posts. 

[Backtrack]

As someone who is a very active user, this really feels like a step back. Most users won’t be able to quote on their phones or tablets by selecting specific portions of text, especially the older members who aren’t as tech savvy.

Flicking through the forum since this ‘upgrade’ makes for a much harder read and it just looks overall way more untidy. I can see why it might work in certain threads such as the model thread where half a page is sometimes taken up by image quotation, but for me if there was an option to turn it off, I would. 
 

That’s my opinion as an IT professional, not a novice user. 

[Kasim Awan]

  @I remember Atlantic 252 I feel like people only use the ignore function to announce they are ignoring others to make themselves seem superior lol. (Not you btw!!)

[Paul]

29 minutes ago, Backtrack said:

As someone who is a very active user, this really feels like a step back.

We'll see how it goes. If you go onto communities that use discourse or flarum (and probably others), they use this sort of system and it works well. There's obviously going to be a bit of a learning curve on here as we've had the traditional quote button option there since day dot, and you're right some people may not know how to select text on mobiles etc, but I've already made a tutorial to help with that, which will hopefully be of use:

https://community.netweather.tv/how-to/posts-and-posting/how-to-quote-a-part-or-all-of-someones-post-r5/

It's absolutely one of those changes where it's going to be at it's worst (so to speak) early on, while people get used to it. So, I think we need to give it a bit and see where it sits once it has bedded in, and also as we further develop it - for instance yesterday we added the links back to the original post on the reply bit. And as @Audaxian mentioned a way to show the post contents inline without actually having to go back to it would further enhance the experience too, so we'll hopefully get something along those lines in at some point as well. 

[MAF]

I think it is working though @Paul as the threads seem to be less cluttered these lat few days. 

[Paul]

  @MAF I think so, and to be fair it's rare to get as many positive comments around a change this sizeable, so early in the piece, which is a really good sign. But, I can also understand the comments about it being a bit harder to follow some threads. But, I'd like to think with a combo of people getting more used to it and the ongoing development of the system things will improve in that respect.

[Arctic Hare]

2 hours ago, Backtrack said:

Flicking through the forum since this ‘upgrade’ makes for a much harder read and it just looks overall way more untidy. I can see why it might work in certain threads such as the model thread where half a page is sometimes taken up by image quotation, but for me if there was an option to turn it off, I would.

Right now I'm in two minds, but probably more on your side of things. I'm not an IT professional, but I have been online for a quarter of a century and using message boards for most of that time. I have to say I very much dislike seeing posts like for example "@-whoever I remember that, it was quite a month!" since it makes no sense out of context and finding the original post is harder than it used to be. I didn't actually think the old system was a particular problem, so I was surprised to see it change. But then maybe I'm biased as a couple of other forums I've moderated over the years actually introduced the quote button during my time rather than removing it, and I think NW is the first place I've ever used that's taken it away.

Having said all that, I do take @Paul's point that significant changes tend to be unpopular at first even if people get used to them later, so I do think it's fair to let things bed in. Certainly it would help a lot if there were an easy way to see the earlier post contents inline, as that's by far the biggest irritation for me when I see a post like the example one I mentioned above. As things stand I can a) guess what it was, b) scroll back to try to find it, or c) get fed up and ignore it. I am finding myself doing c) quite a bit tbh.

[Paul]

Just now, Arctic Hare said:

As things stand I can a) guess what it was, b) scroll back to try to find it, or c) get fed up and ignore it. I am finding myself doing c) quite a bit tbh.

You don't have to scroll back to try to find it even now - just click the arrow next to the name and it'll take you to the post  

[Arctic Hare]

2 minutes ago, Paul said:

You don't have to scroll back to try to find it even now - just click the arrow next to the name and it'll take you to the post

D'oh! Apologies, that one was just me having a brain fade.

I think one other thing that's maybe relevant: we all need to remember that if we're replying to someone we're doing it on a public forum, not in a private message. So a reply that consists only of "Yeah, I agree!" isn't a particularly good choice. I think you (Paul) mentioned that part of the thinking behind this change was to get people to include a bit more context in their posts as a matter of course. If that happens then absolutely it's a good thing.

[TonyH]

Seems a bit clunky.

[Day 10]

Prefer being able to see the quoted text or a portion of it tbh.

[swebby]

  @Audaxian

Quote

Quote

 

On 23/01/2024 at 22:47, Met4Cast said:

Replies to hours old posts will have less  context to them and without the context of the quote, posts will make absolutely no sense.

 

@Paul what I've seen on other communities with a similar set up to what you're trialling now is that the "reply @mention" when hovered by the mouse or tapped on a mobile device brings up an overlay that shows the content from the replied-to post. Similar to what happens here where if you hover the mouse over an @mention it brings up the user's profile card, hovering over the reply arrow icon could bring up the content of the post.

This would be the way forward i think.

Just had a quick drop in on the MAD thread and it is now full of responses that make little or no sense without seeing the original comment.  If the OP is on a previous page or someone is posting multiple times you have to navigate to and fro just to see those comments making the thread far from user friendly.  Also looks like posters are now confusing responses from different posts, especially if the exchange involves a third person and this is when that thread is quite, suspect it will fall apart if the models start spitting out cold solutions come next week?

[danm]

  @swebby I agree, this is especially important in the MOD thread which can be fast paced when there is a cold spell incoming, it's much better to be able to see what is being replied to without having to flit back and forth through various pages. 

[Bristawl Si]

  @danm it isnt when a post has 20 charts in it and then someone replies quoting that long chart post

 

Edited January 25 by Bristawl Si

[danm]

  @Bristawl Si yep but these days the quoted post is largely hidden, you have to click to expand it so doesn't take up the whole page, e.g.:

[Blessed Weather]

1 hour ago, danm said:

it's much better to be able to see what is being replied to without having to flit back and forth through various pages. 

Having an inquisitive mind I thought I would look at every post made today in the Model thread that used the @username method of replying and for each one went back to see how far folk would have had to "flit back" to see what was being replied to. The figures show people didn't have to go far. Here's the analysis of the 12 such posts made.

Distance back to see what was being replied to:
3 posts = back one post (i.e. the previous post)
6 posts = back two posts
1 post  = back three posts
2 posts = back 4 posts

Separately, 9 people used the option of selecting some/all of a post and hitting the 'quote selection' button, so their posts included the quote of what was being replied to.

Just a thought, but I wonder if folk are already realising themselves that using the @username is fine if it's responding to a recent post? But otherwise use the 'quote selection'?

Edited January 25 by Blessed Weather
Clarified stats refer to Model thread.

[WYorksWeather]

I do actually prefer the way things were. I do appreciate what you're trying to do here in reducing clutter. May I make an alternative suggestion? Why not prompt the user if they're going to quote a huge block of text? The previous quote button already allowed you to cut things down. You could limit it by word count, number of images, or whatever.

 

[andy989]

It’s definitely harder to follow conversations now. But I appreciate the effort to de-clutter and agree some posts are far too long and quoting them just makes things worse. But I’m finding it impossible to follow conversations

Edited January 26 by andy989

[Metwatch]

Could a poll be set up maybe to see who likes what?

[Paul]

We're trialling it for now. We'll be monitoring feedback and updating the system in that time.

Putting a poll up before more people have got used to it and before we've had a chance to improve it based on feedback wouldn't give a true reflection.

[Dami]

i'm not a great fan, if someone quotes me from a few pages say, i have no idea what i'm being quoted for. At least the quote box showed you.

[Metwatch]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Putting a poll up before more people have got used to it and before we've had a chance to improve it based on feedback wouldn't give a true reflection.

Fair enough. Interesting to see how it will be "improved" though, as it seems the majority aren't too keen with the current state of it so far.

Edited January 26 by Metwatch

[I remember Atlantic 252]

Why am I seeing quotes again? better without for I.F, as with quotes the ignore feature doesn't work, it just means you cannot reply to a post