Walsall Wood Snow

I just hope it's not a long term or permanent thing. I mean are the met office actually conscious of this, or is it something a bit overlooked. Does anybody have a consensual opinion of why it is, or is it just seen as nothing overly unusual, which could break at any time?

What a shocker. If there has been an equivalent period in the past for lack of thunder, it's quite clear it was a very long time ago.

I admire your optimism.

You live and learn . Then again I've heard of thundersnow, not that I think I've actually witnessed it.

Very interesting. Weird though that there were such frequent thunderstorms in the first 3 months of the year, especially as the first 2 are Winter months. That's got to be pretty unusual, even then? Once again this is just a small window of time and probably doesn't paint the whole picture, but it does once again illustrate how much of a thunder drought we're currently in (here in the west midlands and up your end in the north west anyway), though my region isn't highlighted in that article, but there's a good chance I'd imagine that this region caught some of the action. It's fascinating looking back at past weather events, especially going back to times in the era of our great grandparents (for me anyway). It's kind of depressing though looking back at past eras and seeing all the great weather events, as it feels a bit like these days are pretty uneventful. It's probably not quite like that though and as I say sometimes looking at the data can give you a slightly false impression as it doesn't necessarily paint the whole picture for everywhere all the time. This decade though despite getting off to a good start (with some classic Winter weather in 2010 and 2013), does seem to of gone down hill a bit, especially since 2014 (though the Winter at the start of that year as well as December 2015 were meteorologically interesting, if not to my particular tastes). The lack of thunder along with that just exacerbates the overall dullness of it all in my opinion. Then again we're not talking a massive amount of time here. I mean just for arguments sake if say what's left of Summer or even Autumn suddenly started to provide a thunderfest, next Winter we have a repeat of Winter 1962/63 and next Summer we have a repeat of Summer 1976 and the next decade became something of a weather fanatics dream, this period would soon pale into insignificance. Though this is very far fetched and is pure fantasy surely some interest has to make a comeback at some point.

Yeah there does seem to be a lack of the tamer yet more frequent type of thunderstorms. The frequency of more violent ones is perhaps unchanged?

Apart from the odd and far between solitary event, this decade so far has been a bust for storms. Though I would happily never have a thunderstorm round here again if our Winters constantly became very cold and snowy. We get whatever we get though and that's fair enough. I'm starting to think it's all swings and roundabouts and if it's happened before it'll likely happen again. They say there's nothing new under the Sun after all.

What like what we don't get in thunder we'll get in snow. We live in hope.

Ok then. As I said no offence, I was just questioning it that's all. I don't want to be facetious, it's just a little frustrating seeing people moan about something they've only recently witnessed. I do get you though as you're clearly quite a fan and it must be annoying anytime you miss out. Of course for me not been too fascinated with thunder, just one good storm would raise interest at this stage, though I do long for a time of greater meteorological variety than we're currently experiencing. I suppose for me it's the lack of snow these days which I find a bit dull, and I can't get enough of the stuff, so I can relate to how you feel, as many a time in the past I've been disappointed about missing out on my preferred weather. Oh well it's out of our hands I suppose, and who knows what future weather may bring. It could all change in an instant for all we know. Anyway chin up, at least you've already seen some and the annual window of opportunity is far from closed yet.

No offence, but I thought this was the no storms club 2017. Not the no storms club July 2017. I have yet to see any thunder this calender year, not that getting to early July without is particularly unusual round these parts these days.

Thanks for your reply. It seems that going back to the mid 1950s at least, thunder was much more common, frequent and longer lasting than it is these days. Though of course these are only individual years, give or take a decade apart, but it at least illustrates that we haven't had events like this for some time. Though I think I recall one year last decade (I'm thinking 2005 perhaps but could be wrong) where there we're a few off and on thunderstorms over a period of a few days as I remember my Mum was often calling me downstairs to sit with her as it was making her nervous. I do hope though this is just a relatively temporary blip and such weather events return. You'd think there has to be an equivalent period in history though similar to the current situation for lack of thunder. I mean take the 1960s for example. Though you mention 1968, I've always had the impression that the bulk of the Summer's during that decade we're generally poor with few heatwaves, so I wouldn't be surprised if thunder was a little rare back then. Also what do we know of the regularity of thunderstorms pre 20th century. I mean was thunder more common in say the late 17th century (which was when the LIA was in full swing) than it is now? Anyway as 'Northernlights' says thunder is becoming more common in Scotland, so maybe it's just swings and roundabouts and the current period is just the effect of long term differing distribution. As for the suggestion the thunder belt has moved north, you'd think that would increase thunder days here, not decrease them? Anyway food for thought and thanks again WH .

Also a question for Weather-history should you read this. Been as you're probably this forums premier weather historian, do you know of any periods in the past that were as thunderless as now? I ask because I find it a bit of a stretch that this could be something unprecedented. I know your own records only go back to 1981, so based on that alone there has certainly been a decrease since 2010 especially as you say (just thought for fun I would highlight the fact that those 2 previously mentioned years had fantastic December's as you well know and I thought what are the odds of those 2 years been mentioned in the same sentence on this forum without it been a reference to their classic December's, but I digress lol). But I wonder how thundery the 1970s or 1960s were or before then. It's obvious natural variety differs over long periods and certain weather features vary in frequency from year to year and decade to decade and so forth, so there's little uniformity to these things. So surely if such data exists it might be possible to find an equivalent period. If there is one it would be interesting to know how long it lasted before the number of thunder days started increasing again. This would perhaps give us some sort of gauge in determining how long this current period might last. Anyway if you think you might know the answer it would be greatly appreciated, cheers .

I know it's been 2 years since the last reply to this thread, but in those 2 years things haven't improved much. And been as this issue has come into my mind a lot recently I thought this would be a more dedicated thread to the issue as it's more about the long term than the individual yearly threads. Anyway in 2015 and 2016 I can recall only one decent thunderstorm each for those years and about the same for distant rumbles. This year so far we've had diddly squat despite those in the eastern counties reporting some good storms. Anyway it's clear the trend of decreased thundery activity is continuing for now at least here. Any thoughts.

It is a little frustrating isn't it. Though I don't know why exactly, been as I'm far from the biggest fan of thunder in the world. It's more just a lack of meteorological variety for me really, especially been as we've been so snow starved round here these past few years. All the thunder in the world wouldn't be a substitute, but at least it would remind us that sunshine, wind and plain old rain, aren't the only types of weather we experience. It does puzzle me though why this is happening. I don't think I can recall such a prolonged period with a lack of thunderstorms as we've had this decade so far. They used to be relatively regular, if not exactly common perhaps. Is this in any way unprecedented? Why is it so? Will this probably change eventually? Or is this just something completely normal which the law of averages alone is bound to throw up on occasion? I don't know, perhaps someone can give some insight. 'cyclonic happiness' in the Midland regional thread a few days ago suggested all the air traffic which flies over the region scuppers our chances with their contrails, but I don't know. If true however it's a situation which isn't going to change any time soon. As for trying to avoid getting sucked in any more, I've thought about it myself from time to time, and just taking each day as it comes, with as little foreknowledge of what to expect from the weather as possible, or at least just sticking to tv forecasts, although that can also be frustrating if they're forecasting something interesting happening elsewhere, and you're forecast to miss out. Though I seldom if ever bother checking what people are saying in the MOD thread at this time of year, come Autumn I'm hooked until Spring. Considering how mild and practically snowless these past few Winters have been, it's just caused unnecessary stress, with all the hopes raised that have just as quickly been dashed. I'll probably be reading on there as much as I can come late Autumn again, in the vain hope of 1962/63 revisited, but I have to wonder whether it would be better for my peace of mind just to ignore it. Also it should be pointed out (though I don't know what's going to happen beyond the weekend, which is forecast to be cooler and wetter than at present) it's been a fairly decent Summer so far, despite no thunderstorms round here ( though obviously high sunshine totals and warm to hot temperatures are really the only elements which make a classic Summer) so shouldn't complain really. Plus it's only early July with the bulk of the month still ahead of us, plus the whole of August and beyond for thundery potential. I think if I remember rightly in 2010 there were no thunderstorms at all until one evening in October, which didn't matter considering just a few weeks later we would experience the coldest December in over a century. But you can't expect something like that in any individual year. Even back then it couldn't be predicted in advance. I guess we just don't have a clue really and therefore anything could happen, so it's probably best not to get sucked in as you say and expect or not expect anything.

An interesting if annoying thought if true I suppose. Yet at the same time air traffic over the Midlands has got to be pretty high since the 80s at least. Also is air traffic any higher here than further east in the country where they still seem to occur more often (though I'm not sure if there's been a general decrease nationwide and the west midlands is suffering more than most. I've heard though that the west midlands is historically one of the most thundery parts of the UK after the east midlands and eastern coasts. But even Scotland had thunder recently and that's historically one of the least thundery parts of the UK. Though no doubt air traffic is much lighter up there. I'm not saying I believe you, but it's one theory I suppose. I still think it's likely just the law of averages at play, which on occasion is bound to throw up the odd extended period of increased rarity of what is a fairly rare weather feature in the first place. Even common weather features such as sunshine and rain can be fairly infrequent for extended periods (for nowhere near as long as the rarer ones though). I think that's a pretty sensible assumption.

Yeah I remember as a small child in the late 80s/early 90s been terrified of thunder and no doubt this was based on fairly frequent experience. In fact when I was very young I remember been woken by thunder in the middle of the night, and screaming in terror and having to go and sleep in my parents bed for protection. As I grew older I started to find it exiting, with many memories of looking at the flashes of lightning from various windows and excitedly anticipating the boom. I was certainly acquainted with thunder once upon a time. It's starting to feel a bit of a once upon a time thing these days.

Well I haven't had a thunderstorm so far this year and there looks a high chance we'll miss out here yet again tomorrow. I posted in the Midlands regional thread how I have noticed a marked decrease in the amount of thunderstorms in my region since the late 00s at least. Prior to then , though my memory is probably flawed, I think we used to get a small handful of them most years. Growing up in the 90s that's the impression I've got at least. Before then even in the 80s when my memory is very very vague or non existent I get the impression from this site at least they we're fairly regular back then. Question is were there similar periods in the past we know of when thunder was very rare, or is this period unprecedented (doubtful I think?), but if so why?

Although thunderstorms are a weather feature I can take or leave, I do find it slightly frustrating that we're forecast to largely miss out yet again, despite conditions been in an ideal position for their development. And in response to Shane Wheeldon, unlike snow, thunder was still a relatively common weather feature in this region in the 90s and 00s even. I don't think it was really until the late 00s and since, now into the late 10s that I really started to consciously notice how rare thunderstorms are becoming. Growing up in the 90s I would guess that most years contained a small handful of thunderstorms spread out through the year, with the occasional short spell where they would feature over successive days (probably rarely over 2 though). Though I must admit this is based solely on my flawed memory and they may have been rarer than I think, but these days we're lucky to get one a year and I certainly only recall one thunderstorm each last year and in 2015, (though they we're pretty good ones by UK standards). As I said though I can take or leave them really and if somehow I had to choose between snow been common or thunder been common, and which ever one I chose would make the other rare, I would choose snow to be common every time. The only thing I find a shame about our current thunder drought is the fact that it's one of the more unique features of weather that adds to our overall variety and it's rarity makes our weather a bit less interesting. With the lack of snow the last few years as well the lack of interest is just exacerbated. On the other hand though despite the lack of potential for an impressive breakdown (though we could be surprised yet, and I wouldn't rule it out completely) at least we've had a pretty decent heatwave, and it's nice to have had one around the solstice for once when daylight is at it's longest, and personally I think it's great that we've had that, and with 2 and 1/3 months of Summer still ahead of us with what is generally the warmest period of the year still to come, there could be more of this over the horizon with any thundery breakdowns yet to come. Anyway I would be interested to know by how much thunder has decreased in this region over recent years and whether there were any other periods in the past when thunder in this region was as rare as it is at present and how long it lasted etc before they became more frequent again. For one thing though, I doubt it's unprecedented.

It does seem like a while ago doesn't it, but then again it was 6 and a half years ago now which is a fair while. Even the more recent very cold and snowy spells we had in January and March 2013 seem quite a while back now but even they were over 4 years ago now. Our Winter weather has been pants since then with very little snow that hasn't even stuck around for a day. I hope Winter 2017/18 has something better to offer, but after pinning my hopes on 4 failed Winters in succession now I should probably lower my expectations. This cluster of mostly mild dominated and practically snowless Winters has got to break eventually though so there's some hope for next Winter there.

Well potential is better than no potential I suppose, but I wonder if that could be said in April any year? It's been a pretty long time since we've had a particularly hot and sunny Summer. I'd say 2006 was the last one of any real note which is 11 years ago now, so surely we're overdue one. Though I'm not entirely sure I want this, as the night's especially are a pain to sleep through. It does make the days both relaxed and alive at the same time though and people quite like it generally. It would be good to get a picture book major season for once as well after the general blandness of the last few years.

Thanks frogesque for starting this thread, for yet another year of amphibian observation. Anyway today I've had the first blob of frogspawn in my pond. Noticing from the previous thread, last year I saw my first blob on the 21st, so that's a whole week earlier this year.

No spawn yet but I've already seen frogs moving about in my pond since late February. Isn't it about time a 'Frogs and other Amphibia 2017' thread was started. I trust frogesque will start one soon enough. Maybe he hasn't seen any in his pond yet and will wait until he witnesses some activity? Though I notice this thread was opened on 9th February last year.

Yes but March isn't exactly a stranger to cold temperatures and even snow. In fact historically it is a month that has given quite impressive dumpings from time to time (2013 as the most recent example). There is a tendency though for some of us (and I'm by no means guiltless of this, especially come Winter) to expect a particular season to get into full swing as soon as the meteorological definition of said season officially begins. This seldom happens though and very often the first month of said season is often a transitional phase, battleground or even an extended continuation of the previous season. Besides after March there's about a 5 month window (6 if you include September) for warm temperatures, whereas after March we're unlikely to see cold enough temperatures for snow until November at least. So in that regard there should be no rush for cloudless blue skies and warm temperatures just yet, as there's more than enough time for such and still a while to go until the peak period of Summer.

I was waiting for someone to report a wintry flavour to tonights precipitation. Just rain here but I keep checking now and again to see if it's changed. Looked on the North West thread and people there are reporting sleet and snow. Any chance of any of that coming this way I wonder?

Still just plain old rain showers round these parts. Can't see it turning out any different now. Still good to hear that some members not too far away have seen some snow today even if nothing really remarkable. Looks as though meteorological Winter 2016/17 is going to close today with very little snow to speak of, except for that very short lived covering we had back in mid January (not even 24 hours). Not that we can dismiss the possibility of seeing more snow in early Spring, with mid March been speculated on by some members in the MOD thread. I've got to admit though that I've come to the stage, whereby if it happens I will appreciate and enjoy it, but at this stage now I'm not overly fussed and wouldn't mind a bit of early Spring sunshine and warmth either. I at least hope though this Winter will mark the end of the mostly mild and practically snowless cluster of Winters we've had to endure since 2013. I'm not overly confident of this, but been as this Winter is the 4th in succession now I imagine we're probably closer now to our next cold and more snowy Winter than we are to Winter 2012/13 which was our last. It won't be until mid to late Autumn though until any clues start to build in relation to next Winter. Although one aspect of the disappointment as far as this Winter has been concerned was the promising outlook for it towards the end of last Autumn, which raised our hopes, but in reality has been little or no better than the 3 Winters preceding it. Oh well this is Great Britain not Hokkaido, and some places in Europe have had a very cold Winter. In many ways it was the Winter equivalent of Summer 2015, when much of Europe experienced a lovely hot Summer and the UK was left out in the cold or cool and wet at least. Whereas this Winter we were left out in the mild, though I believe Scandinavia was as well. Just goes to show that we really are at the end of the line when it comes to extreme continental style temperatures and very often the train decides to terminate service before getting this far.