Alan Medlock Valley

One thing is certain is that over a space of only a few miles the weather can be very different in Britain, many times I've driven to Manchester city centre to find no snow, yet here 5 miles away we have had a good 3 inches on the ground, the funny thing is I've found that once you get to the Man City ground and then Eastwards that's when you hit the snowfall. West of the City ground there tends to be not much.

Lydgate is a stonker, been on that road a few times with some impressive drifts. Yes Manchester city centre never does that well for snow as it is only 20-40m asl plus heat island effect, and Liverpool too close to the coast and again too low.

Generally milder air gets into the UK in the South and West more often, so hence less snowfall and obvious snow depth. The second chart on link shows on average most of the snow in the UK falls from North Wales (Snowdonia) Northwards http://www.metoffice.../snow-in-the-uk

As you said earlier Saddleworth does do very well for snowfall, being quite far East I reckon helps too, considering it is as far East as Corbridge in N'humberland.

I know what you mean about Oldham council, we live just inside the boundary, and on Oldham Road in Failsworth there is a huge red "SNOW" sign and tells you which road in Saddleworth is shut. As seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/raver_mikey/3554437981/

Generally in the UK the further North and East you go you do better for snowfall, height helps as well, so if you lived in the town/village of Tomintoul you could probably call it the snowiest place in Britain, due to again being in the far North and East and is at an elevated position. Still having said all that there are snowy parts of England like the North York Moors, Yorkshire Dales, Peak District who at times give places even further North a run for their money. I should note also being a few miles or more inland as well helps to gain snowfall, as the sea does moderate snowfall to an extent.

Potent Greenland high there @ 1055mb

Monday looks mild or very mild with a gentle SE breeze. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn961.png GFS shows high pressure over the UK on 28th, a long way off but it wouldn't be warm, frost and fog could be issues with a slack airflow across Northern parts. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.png

Yes and the one thing I forgot to mention is the UK has an advantage in terms of snow but it is our usual foe - the sea!, when cold air is in place and warmer air from the Atlantic and associated systems bumping into the cold "aloft" then this can cause convection and bring quite widespread streamers - As we have seen over the past 4 years or so on a number of occasions and localities. It is a bit like in the US with the Great Lakes and Lake Effect snow causing streamers there. So sometimes the seas can be an advantage, not so much for bone chilling cold like is seen on the Continent due to huge landmass over there stopping the milder Atlantic infuence air but in terms of sheer snowfall over here.

You didn't have lying snow in Leeds in Oct 2008? we only had about an inch here at best, London had an inch like it says in the link on my post further up.

Indeed and there's people who always say when it snows in New York that it will "come over here", the fact is the Atlantic would moderate the cold once the storm gets to our shores. Very rarely do we get lowland snow from the Atlantic. The only time snow would occur directly from a storm that left the US east coast would be from those rare battleground scenarios when cold and warm air sits over the UK.

Well you never know, look at this, if it can down south in October it is certainly possible where you are http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/29/weather-london

I think we still have about week until a cold spell is nailed on, and even then various factors downgrades/upgrades and tweaks will come into play, still encouraging signs non-the-less......at the moment. Would be interesting to see just how cold this valley can get in October, I reckon I could get -6C with the right synoptics. On 30th October 2008 I recorded -4.7C here during that cold spell with a max of just 4.1C. That as it stands is my coldest October Min and Max.

4wd has made most of the right points there. I will as well add that the higher you go the more precipitation falls so if your 47m higher then you will see slightly more snow accumulation than the town centre, nothing extreme but slightly more non-the-less. Also town centre's are warmer due to more buildings closer together and less open space so in turn creating a heat effect from the days warming so it will make even more difference. If you was 150m higher then you would see significantly more snow/rain, but again at 47m higher you would definitely see a slight difference yes.

Exactly and if you at your location live at roughly 10-20m asl like most of Irlam is then you records will vary substantially (sometimes) than mine or someone living in Bury, Ashton-under-lyne, Denton etc, I mean your almost in Warrington as well all the way down there haha

The Winter index for Manchester is recorded at Manchester Airport which is located some 12 miles away from here and is not in a frost hollow unlike here, so it's not valid 100% for my location all of the time but for 50% of Manchester yes. 2009/10 was the worst Winter since 1995/1996, hence like I said we haven't had a winter like that or at least comparably cold/snowy "since" 1995-1996.

December 1988 wasn't milder than February 1998, not convinced about 1974 though as I don't have the data that far back so can't comment on that year.

I know the exception but show us all a December warmer than February 1998>>>>

I think you're right, I think that November into late Jan is the best time for snow and ice to literally stick around, before or after that is shorter lived regardless of temperature, dew point and humidity due to the increased Solar output.

Exactly hence why I said "since" but it also depends where in Manchester you live, areas in west Manchester (almost at sea level) like yourself wouldn't of done very well in 1995/1996 but here in the East at a good 80 metres higher we did very well in 1995/1996, certainly as good in terms of snowfall as 2009/10. Sorry for the double post!

Exactly hence why I said "since" also it depends where you lived in Manchester, areas in West Manchester (almost at sea level) probably wouldn't of done quite as well in terms of snowfall in 1995/1996 as here in East Manchester as we are a good 70 metres higher than where you are.

Exactly hence why I said "since"

Here on 5th January 2010 and across most of NW England we had the most snow since 1996, so 14 years, a long time to see a foot of snow again. The streamers from the Irish sea carried shower after shower well inland and gave us just over a foot in this location. That morning I remember my wife waking me up in shock and saying "look outside, you won't believe this!" so I got up, looked out and I couldn't even tell where the local landmarks where as they were that buried!, the fields we own here were like something from Lapland and the lane was buried. The following days the only suitable means for transportation around the area was 4x4 cars, and luckily our Landrover Defender came to the rescue. So I think Winter 2009/10 was the coldest/snowiest here since Winter 1995/96.

Even some places in Scotland would be lucky to see as much snow as that.