Devonian

Yes, Ice-albedo feedback is a well know, and long known, phenomena. You are right about the consequences of it. Indeed, aiui, a good portion of the projected modeled warming is due to ice-albedo warming - though exactly how much I'm not sure. As to 'too much reliance being placed on the ability of the human race to brake or even reverse the process.' well, (as bftv said in this post) 'This all feels a bit like a gambler. Someone that had a short period of success but now is almost broke, with his home, family, and career on the line. He starts asking around for solutions, but with the caveat that nobody suggests he stops gambling or reduce how much he gambles. Anyone that suggests those things he decries as naive and unrealistic, insinuates ulterior motives for suggesting them and uses whatever he can to try attack their character.'

If you think that then you're buying the caricature of the protestors put about by those seeking to denigrate them (see Piers above) and you're demanding that people be perfect. Both are ill advised imo and not how it is. But, what do you suggest? That people don't protest about problems? That people say nothing leaving 'the masses' even more ignorant of what is happening? Doing that just leave those who don't care to carry on even more regardless. Maybe you think there need to be stronger protests, that violence perhaps war is the answer. XR don't think that is the right way forward, and I agree. The world is indeed in a mess - and I can never understand why those pointing that out get attacked. Well, actually, I can understand it because usually they're attacked by those who want them silenced.

Tu quoque, my god it's the greatest way to solve the worlds problems EG: 'People who protest about dangerous road accident blackspots? Get a life and get a job, you use roads too you hypocrites! People who campaigned to ban smoking? Wasters, get a job and, besides, I know some of you used to smoke you hypocrites! People who try to help other people get off alcohol & drugs? But many of you used alcohol & drugs too you hypocrites! People who, hundreds of years ago, wanted us to build sewers? Hypocrites, you chuck sewerage in the streets too!' etc etc etc Another change to my lifestyle? Pointing out tu quoque to people.....

Looks like 'project fear extinction rebellion' to me... And he tries to portray her as a hypocrite - practice what you preach he says, then he ranted on and on and then told her to answer the question (though how she could when he was ranting on beats me )... Still, he's right, showing her to be a hypocrite will make the temperature fall and the amount of the CO2 in the atmosphere fall? Showing XR to be hypocrites will make it all go away? I think not... My positive lifestyle change to come out of that? Trying to ensure I don't have to listen to Piers ranting on again...

This is an interesting article that, I'm afraid, points out that volcanoes produce far less CO2 than human activity. Nor did the two world wars have much effect on the rise in CO2 and the nuclear tests likewise. What does have an effect is that every year human activity adds a few billions of tonnes of CO2 to the atmosphere. Each year, every year. Looking at the the carbon cycle what we produce each year is tiny compared to the total of CO2 in the carbon cycle but the point is that every year we add billions of tonnes of CO2 to the carbon cycle. Over the last century that has caused atmosphere CO2 to rise from 280ppm to 410ppm (a huge change to the whole atmosphere) and there really is no other explanation other than that we are responsible.

Met O library time it is then...

It would be wrong of me to say that beyond the first few paragraphs I didn't find the paper very heavy going. I know when I'm beat and (unlike so many laymen) when I'm reading something beyond me by someone who knows better than me. Would the book be as heavy going?

No, because the changes would be imperceptibly slow and we wouldn't be the cause. What we might cause in a century took hundreds of thousands of years if not millions of years back then. Besides, I just don't want my name to be on the list of 'helped the destruction going on'. Sorry, but I don't.

My bad English, I meant most of what we are causing is because of burning fossil fuels.

No, that would be to put words in my mouth... I said NO such thing! And I would not think such a thing!

I agree. But then in any community you get diversity. Broadly XR get it. And in 50 years? I will (I'm sad to say) be surprised if the world isn't another degree plus warmer, that some animals and birds we both know well will be effectively extinct in the wild and that changes we would be shocked at will have happened to the broader environment. I expect attacks for such views.

I don't deny any of that. Nor do I deny that human activities (burning fossil fuels mostly) are causing climate change. Nor do I deny that this planet is being degraded - its seas over fished, forests being chopped down, animals losing habitat, insect being killed. I'm thus supportive of XR. Btw, I have a fixed address, I work, I'm not a pensioner - probably quite like you actually...

No. I'm confident they have just refused to leave. If you can show where they haven't been peaceful, but instead been violent, please post any examples. I'm happy to condemn violence!

My reply would be how the world worked IF Tu quoque was how the world works. As it is alleging, or even pointing out, someone is a hypocrite doesn't alter whether what they say is right or not.

I abbreviated them because I couldn't be bothered to write 'Extinction Rebellion protestors' every time.

Humm, the irony seems to have been lost on you.

Something amazing just happened! The moment you exposed some hypocrisy the temperature of the world fell back .8C and the population of threatened species jumped back to normal and CO2 fell back to 280ppm. So now there is nothing to be at all concerned about. Fantastic news!!!

I know some XRers and beach cleaning and litter picking are the kind of things they also do. Oh, and remember, the picture that was supposed to show litter left by an XR protest was fake.. Graft? Do you know what it is then? Have you spent part of your life slogging about on a farm in all weathers like I have?

Ahhhh, you were replying to GW's post? Sorry, that wasn't clear to me. Anyway, can any of us be free of hypocrisy? Are you free of hypocrisy?

Let he or she without hypocrisy cast the first stone?

What an excellent simile

^^^ Is my reaction to those who glibly say we've had it, or there is nothing we can do, or behave like gamblers as per BFTV'd excellent point above.

In ten years time? A warmer world and a world more obviously degraded - and all as has been predicted. What is the real story behind the sceptic headlines? Why don't people want to see the bleeding obvious?

Poor response. You can do better.

What you seem to be saying is 'we need to do X, but the people wont do X so we need a plan that does X without doing X'.