Summer of 95
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Posts posted by Summer of 95
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On 28/10/2023 at 21:00, Summer8906 said:
In midwinter perhaps, but in early November you have this silly situation of wasted daylight before 7am and darkness shortly after 5pm.
As I said above there might be a need for winter time for a short period for three months or so around the solstice, but there is absolutely no need to change the clocks this early. It certainly won't be "dark until gone 9am" under BST for a good few weeks yet in any part of the country.
Under winter time at this time of year, solar noon is at a ridiculously early 11.50am, leading to ridiculously lop-sided days. And all the daylight is before work, rather than after, so you can't take advantage of it. Think about it: even though the midpoint of the workday is 1pm, the sun is already going down by 11.55am, less than three hours into the typical workday.
There's something a bit puritanical and hair-shirted about winter time IMO. The weather is already making the afternoons gloomy as it is - but messing around with the clock just makes the problem very much worse. It makes it almost impossible to have a relaxed lunch at the weekend and then go out and do something out of doors, even if the weather is acceptable.
We are literally the only country in our area of Europe which has such dark afternoons in the winter. Ireland is further west so has lighter afternoons. The Netherlands, Belgium and northern France are on a more sensible timezone. Thus the UK is perhaps the worst country to be in the Western European winter; even those countries with a comparably dull wet climate are at least on timezones more suited to their longitude. You have to go to Iceland or Scandinavia to find countries with comparably dark, or darker afternoons.
Sunrise and sunset times in Hajnówka, Poland
TIME-OK.COM
Sunrise and sunset times in Hajnówka, Poland today and tomorrow. Day length, twilight and solar noon for every day of the 2023 year.Even worse for early sunsets is eastern Poland, that place is exactly the same latitude as here and gets an earliest sunset of 3.10pm, and nearly 3 months of sunsets before 4pm (starting tomorrow!). It'll have more days with snow on the ground in winter, but November there (before it arrives) must be really grim.
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3 hours ago, TSNWK said:
Great Post.. I'm also glad that I'm not alone in matching each day with its equivalent the other side. Today for example is equal daylight to 15th February... although I still don't understand completely why sunsets are later post solstice than their equivalent pre solstice total daylight duration is the same . For example 29th October sunset in London is 16:39 with 9 hours 51 of sun above horizon the equivalent date post solstice is 13th February sunset is 17:10 with same sun above horizon duration as October 29th?
Called the "equation of time". Solar noon (when the sun is on the meridian/highest) doesn't exactly coincide with clock noon. Same reason for the earliest sunset being a bit before the solstice and the latest sunrise a bit after.
Equation of time - Wikipedia
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORGNote how solar noon is earliest compared to the clock around late Oct and early Nov; this has the effect of making the sunset even earlier around the time the clocks change. And it's latest around mid Feb, another argument for moving them forward at least a month earlier (if we can't have BST all year which would be my preference).
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September 2019. A fairly benign and dry month that culminated in that glorious weekend 21st-22nd. Or it would have been but for that final week which was so wet that the Severn burst its banks, for the first of many times in the following 6 months.
(Re the mention of March 2020) That 2019-20 Mediterranean winter mild and wet season really did start and finish at the equinoxes so perfectly... Did it actually happen in the Mediterranean?
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More rain..... Was beautifully clear at 8am.
Shawbury now 137mm this month according to Weather online, which if accurate would make it the wettest October since at least the 1940s, and with 9 days left is seriously threatening the wettest month of the 21st Century (June 2007, 146.4mm). If it reaches 150 it'll be the wettest month since September 1976 (the wettest month on record with 174.2).
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Which month in 1999 was below? None of them seemed cool that year, even if only July and maybe September to some extent were notably warm.
2003- October I presume, 2006 March and 2014 August?
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Been raining nonstop since 10pm last night. Moving away southwards when?? Seems to have got a bit stuck, rivers are going to struggle with much more of this especially after hours on end of rain on Wednesday as well.
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17 hours ago, Metwatch said:
More recently i'd say 2 come to mind, 2nd March 2018, though i didn't really check charts much at the time just Met Office forecasts, they didn't show a flake of snow that whole Friday here, but then ended up with on and off light to moderate snow amounting to quite a few inches, almost worthy of an amber warning!
Another one is 7th January 2021, which started off very chilly -3C with fog, then a very cold daytime max of -0.7C. By the evening it cooled down very quickly, making way for some very fine and light sugar like snow at -2c, continuing into the early hours which amounted to almost 2cm melting the next day. Was so light that the radar barely picked it up, must have
There was another day in Jan 2021 when hours of torrential rain at about 10C suddenly became settling snow, it was about the 21st? A few days before the main event on the 24-25th anyway, it must have been the time the cold air for that one arrived.
Also the surprise 2cm covering from a few Cheshire Gap showers on 22-23 Jan 2019, the only snow here that winter
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Still no sun here, it's just unable to break through all this cloud. There is a patch of blue I can see to the N and NW that seems to be more hopeful than the clear skies that seemingly can't pass the M4.
Also the (stronger than forecast) wind is not coming from the south, it seems to be between W and NW which is hopeless for getting serious warmth.
Bad forecasts all week. 22-23 and sunny was what I kept seeing for today, it's 19 (but feels cooler) and cloudy
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The wind has really picked up tonight after this afternoon's drizzle and rain, and it's still overcast, hmmm doesn't feel like a sunny 22C day tomorrow somehow
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And now it's started raining, more of that horrible soaking drizzle stuff. Hope I'm wrong but I'm getting vibes that this weekend's rain is not going to be confined to Scotland
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2 hours ago, Metwatch said:
Welsh mountains doing a cracking job of blocking the rain and now also clearing the cloud here, so it's mostly sunny. Just still got that breeze as the high isn't centered over England yet.
18C indoors, 19C outside.
Not doing their job here, completely overcast again. The rain shadow starts at the border, the cloud shadow not until Birmingham, that's how it often seems to work especially in the warmer months
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April 2021 again was far and away the best example I could think of- the double of over 200 hours of sunshine and a day with lying snow was not something I expect to see round here very often to say the least. All those frosty nights and glorious sunny days as well, it was a great month.
December 2001 was the other I immediately thought of. Although it had some freezing fog that I remember it was still significantly sunnier than average and was similarly frosty and went very cold at the end with some snow.
In sharp contrast to the two very dull months either side, I'd say February 1996 also qualifies. As well as having a low mean temp it was quite a bit sunnier than average round here.
It's harder to find a summer month, that combination seems elusive then. But one notably sunny summer month did just make it as colder than average- June 2015. The mean max was slightly above but the mean min a bit more below. Many days were around 20-21 by day dropping to single figures at night, only the last couple reached 25, it had an impressive 237 hours of sun. Actually a perfect month for being dry, sunny, warm by day, cooling down at night. Easily forgotten because the rest of the summer and May were so poor.
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4 minutes ago, CryoraptorA303 said:
Christ, not again with the 'summer 2023 was so baaaaad' whining. You've got some nerve calling the hottest September for England "disappointing on two counts". Also, September 2023 was overall warmer than 2006 in overall average max nationally; it lost that battle on the average min in Scotland. The Tmax at Shawbury was consistently average-above average after the heatwave, so now you're moaning about getting above average autumn temperatures in autumn.
You're never going to be happy in a western English climate if you expect every summer to be Mediterranean. Then again, judging by your username, we know what kind of person we're dealing with here.
Now can we stop with the complaining please. I was hoping the complaining about our supposedly 'bad' summer (imo the best one in some years) would've ended when we got the September we did. But nope, some people STILL aren't happy with the hottest September on record.
Um, if it is duller and wetter than average and the stats prove that then "disappointed on two counts" is a fair comment? It's not really complaining, just pointing it out.
Down in Kent you have a totally different climate to here in the warmer months, more like that of central France it seems, I could easily believe it was drier and sunnier there, both in raw figures and compared to the respective local averages.
Nobody expects every summer to be "Mediterranean" unless we are in the Mediterranean, but 3 consecutive duller than average months, 2 of them also wet, in the warm season is disappointing, especially after a good June that nobody is complaining about.
And what provoked that comment about usernames? By the way that picture in the avatar is Skadi, the Norse goddess of snow....
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Just having a look at the Shawbury stats:
June
Ave max 22.6 (+3.5)
Rain 39.0mm (-20)
Sun 213.2 hr (+27.7)
That was a decent enough start but then....
July
Ave max 20.1 (-1.0)
Rain 110.2mm (+52.5)
Sun 115.7hrs (-77.6)
Absolutely dreadful summer month, matching anything in 2007-12. Stats are not lying there (the mean minimum was almost exactly average btw, so the month was colder than average overall).
August
Mean max 20.1 (-0.6)
Rain 55.2mm (-9.0)
Sun 113.3hrs (-54.7)
Although just drier than average it was very poor for sunshine, and the mean max was still below average (August has become significantly duller and wetter in 91-20 compared to 81-10, and the gap in mean max between July and Aug has been growing, nearly 0.5C now compared to 0.2-0.3 in previous periods)
September
Mean max 21.1 (+3.0)
Rain 74.6mm (+13.5)
Sun 118.7hrs (-16.0)
Despite the very high mean temperature it disappointed on the other two counts. The stats don't show how it went so badly downhill after the spectacular first 9 days, the warmth after that was entirely due to high minima (2.3C above average, all the months from June to Sept had very similar mean minima).
Damning stat: 2023 is the first year since 1957 that July, August and September all failed to reach 120 hours of sunshine. That year had the sunniest June on record as well.
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8 minutes ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:
Oooh that's bright! Love it though!
Not taken today in Shropshire! Continually grey and lots of rain and drizzle. Sun tried to appear around 4pm but then went back in again. Feels incredibly sticky as well, temperature hardly dropped last night.
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Looking at months from before my time, February 1965 looks especially grim. 25.1 hours of sun and 10.4mm of rain at Shawbury, with a low mean max of 5.5 but mean min of 0.1 and only 11 frosts. Cold but not freezing, dry and dull. Looking at the snow survey it doesn't seem to have been great, saying that away from highland districts most places had only 1-2 days of snow cover, no doubt because of the dryness and lack of cold nights caused by the cloud.
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Has it gone further north than forecast? Had a few showers and been blowy but nothing spectacular so far.
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11 minutes ago, RJBingham said:
Yeah, Feb 2019 if I recall correctly, lovely warm end to the month.
Record breaking February, mild winter
WWW.METOFFICE.GOV.UK
No one could have missed that February was record breaking.Was that an SSW? It hadn't been cold beforehand. I saw it mentioned on here that there was one in winter 2001-2 that caused the sudden flip from a cold Dec/early Jan to weeks of mild Atlantic rainy stuff the rest of winter, ie moving us to the "wrong" side.
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On 25/09/2023 at 13:25, Summer8906 said:
Surprised if we're getting more sun in July and August though: those two months seem to have become noticeably cloudier from August 2006 onwards. Maybe it's just in this region but it seems to be becoming harder to get sustained anticyclonic spells in July and August.
Agree that much of spring has become sunnier, March and April in particular.
Looking at the 91-20 compared to 81-10 averages for this area, every month has in fact become sunnier except August, which has gone down from 176 to 168. Some only marginally, but March and April have gained around 10 hours each. June has also gained 7 hours- going along with my feeling that it seems to have got better as August has got worse, there were quite a lot of rubbish Junes in the 80s and 90s.
The 2001-30 figures will be interesting to see, unless we get a long run of sunny ones I think August will get even duller once the 1990s are out of the averages. I wouldn't be that surprised if April overtakes it (it's 10 hours behind now compared to 25 in 81-10).
The other noticeable change in the current averages compared to before is that December is now colder than February. It was significantly warmer in 61-90 and 71-10, almost identical in 81-10, in 91-20 it's actually colder, despite December 1981 going out and 2015 coming in.
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On 20/09/2023 at 18:31, I remember Atlantic 252 said:
perfect setup
Winds too W'ly, SK4 over a foot
winds too N'ly, Telford a dumping
On 20/09/2023 at 18:15, I remember Atlantic 252 said:Aye but everything has to be in place perfectly, or low levels will get just rain, and wind direction key, 20th Dec 2009 horrid as SK4 had a dumping, here nothing with a W/WNW wind, NNW wind will give Telford a dumping and nothing here, and 850's need to be close to -10
Strange how today they are getting over the Welsh hills like they aren't there, wind is quite W'ly, as I've noticed in the past that rain shadow only works properly in the winter (same with frontal rain and straight W'lies). Had several downpours today from that lot, doubt we would get that in a cold airmass in January with this wind direction.
The wind direction is important in winter, here it's best with more N than W (Dec 2017, fantastic
), while more NW'ly tends to give the "M6 streamer" instead (great for Stafford/Stoke but often disappointing for Shropshire and W Cheshire and NE Wales); and WNW piles it all into Manchester and the Peak District while they fizzle out over N Wales. Dec 2004 though was a more organised area of precip that affected pretty much all the NW Mids as I recall, they can be decent as well (except the one below...)
Wind direction or scattered precipitation though can't explain the worst one here, late November 2021- nowhere missed the heavy precipitation but it was somehow rain all over Shropshire even on the hills, while Cheshire and Staffs and Birmingham and even the coast around the Mersey had snow (and even further south too). That was just the Shropshire effect at its best/worst
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December 2021 in recent years, a fortnight with virtually no sunshine.
Nov 2015 had sunshine on one of the first 12 days. The rest of the month and December weren't much better.
July 2010 was appalling for a summer month- 86 hours, even more so as unlike many dull summer months (June 12, Aug 08, July 23) it wasn't particularly wet. Just really dull for some reason.
Jan 1996 is famous, it was as dull here as everywhere else, less remembered is how dull March 1996 also was. That too had at least a fortnight with practically no sun (though there was some snow in the middle of the month), the sun appeared on the final weekend for the first time in what seemed like weeks.
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1 hour ago, Dancerwithwings said:
Sat is showing cloud cover right over us
Simply locking in all this day time heat…22.8c…22:10 is me….I would be impressed if this was July or August….but 8 days in to September is wow !!!
Its all changed regarding our world for sure
To be honest I have been looking at the satellite this evening and thinking that mostly non-precipitating cloud is going to keep the temperature up overnight and then clear off to the north in the morning, giving a head start to the heat. Forecasting round here is a total guess but that has been my guess
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Sun has been breaking through since about 11am but this high/mid level cloud is extremely slow to shift. There were a few spots of rain first thing but they have moved off north now.
For some reason I've noticed these long lines of hazy murk have a nasty habit of showing up during hot spells here, and they keep forming in the same place- between about 2° and 4° West, from the Bay of Biscay in a straight line up to NW England and SW Scotland. Straight over here or very nearby, whilst eastern Britain and sometimes west of there too is clear. 1st July 2015 was a terrible case when it refused to shift all day and blocked the sun totally. Hopefully it disappears tonight!
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2 hours ago, Don said:
Did you see much in the way of snow in December 2000 between Christmas and New Year, as I think many parts of the Midlands did quite well on the 27th/28th?
How much snow did you get during December 2010? I remember you saying that you largely missed out, but I have a feeling that was the during the previous 09/10 winter?
Not much in December 2000, 2-3cm but that was the most since January 1997 (and the first time it had stayed on the ground more than 24 hours since then).
Dec 2010 we had snow on the ground from Nov 27 to Dec 9th, then again from 17th to 28th. Maximum was 15cm from 22nd-26th Dec (7cm on 2nd-3rd in the first spell). That one certainly made up for the winter before.....
2009/10 was the horror show when a 20-30 mile radius of Shrewsbury somehow avoided virtually all the snow time and time again. Whatever the wind direction, whatever the forecast... And again and again. Rather see another 2013-14 than that one (everywhere had nothing in that one)
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Autumn 2023
in Spring Weather Discussion
Posted
Absolutely off the scale wet round here. 170.6 mm of rain for Shawbury in October 2023 according to the Metoffice figures just released. That makes it:
By far the wettest October recorded there since the record began in 1946 (previously 121mm in 1954, followed by 116.6mm in 2019)
The wettest month of any name since September 1976 (174.7mm)
The third wettest month since the record began there (also just behind May 1969 with 172.7mm)
The wettest month between 1976 and last month was June 2007 with 146.4mm, so way ahead of that as well
Also gives 2023 the biggest difference between the driest and wettest months in a year; 4.2mm in February for a difference of 166.4, beating the 164mm difference in 1976 and being the first time a year has had a month below 10mm and above 150mm.
Following a wet but not exceptional 74.6mm in September; November needs 82.2mm to make 2023 the wettest autumn recorded (currently 327.4mm in 2000) and 114.6mm for the wettest 2 consecutive months (285.2mm, June-July 2007). 158mm for the wettest 3 months (May-July 2007, 403.2mm) is surely out of reach, though anything over 100 might give Oct-Dec a chance.
An exceptional month by any standards.