4wd

7.8C here, we're in a valley but not far enough from the sea to be a classic frost hollow. 31st August last year dropped to 1.8C, not sure what the charts looked like - can anyone find them?

Logic deficit. Why should anyone presume that when evidently 1912 was wetter? Last year was very dry for many areas - further logic deficit. The current AGW propaganda ploy to link any and every weather event to CO2 is clearly working. I'm amazed so many are so gullible. June was a wet month here 127mm (+32mm), but the next two months were on the dry side - July 79mm (-21mm), August 70mm (-37mm) - total for summer months combined = about average. Furthermore year to date 579mm (-11mm) here is about average with a dry winter balanced by wet Spring.

Good reminder why sheltering under a tree is a bad idea.

10.3C with driving rain from the north this morning - suitable event to draw this vile summer to a close.

Boiling by Christmas surely.

So droughts never happened before? This continual assertion that any adverse weather is somehow directly linked to less arctic ice is very tiresome, unproven, scaremongering.

Being reported faster than before more like. The "Climate Change in the Polar Regions" quote specifically points out that CO2 is only one element in changes and can't be assumed as the major driver.

I am struggling to understand how people apparently with reasonable interest and knowledge in weather can fall for this idea of our weather is somehow messed up by slightly less Arctic ice, mostly on the basis of one unusually wet summer in one small part of NW Europe. There have always been runs of wet summers and runs of dry ones too. In the 60s I remember the favourite thing to blame was Sputniks "stirring things up" and the Russians in general. Ice loss is just the latest boogie man.

Keswick will have far more air frost mornings so not that surprising that snow is lying at 9am on more days. It's a good point about the snow line often seeming to be at much the same level, we see it here usually at about 1000feet. I think it's likely related to winter sea temperatures in our case since most of our snow events have a northerly or easterly component with sea temperatures chilling the air to a predictable level - a major factor in deciding the altitude wet snow can start to settle. Sometimes repeated snowfalls will melt below 1000ft but above that the snow remains dry and easily drifts in the wind. One of the more spectacular winter scenarios is deep powder snow blowing from the moorland plateau and sheeting out into space over the valley when the fields below are green.

Have you lost the ability to read.

Greenland's surface under the ice is not particularly mountainous and the many areas would be below sea level if the ice were not there. The concept of water lubricating underneath and large reas sliding away does not really apply.

I think wind speed has more effect, and if it's in the sun the material is warmed which helps enormously. The principles are the same as drying hay or straw enough for baling, but it can be surprisingly difficult to predict sometimes.

Umm... isn't that what I wrote originally? You seem ratty today. It was only supposed to be a slightly funny comment.

What someone from an organisation said isn't a quote unless you say it is? That's a useful thing to know.

I wonder what a 'High Pressure Front' is? Someone from the Met Office said one is coming so they must be real.

Wrong, the Arctic ice has melted a bit more than it did five years ago. That is not a global crisis. Stop turning the threat into a disaster movie script.

You hardly make a post without references to denial, denialists, "Faux-sceptics" (copied from Tamino I think) Apparently this thread has to be one long litany of impending-doom-and-it's-all-our-fault and any post not laced with suitable gloom is pounced on and the author castigated! If it's about arctic ice then stick to that without continually lecturing about how reduced ice must mean global climate disaster - because basically that's all green activist speculation and scaremongering, nothing more than political posturing intended to provoke more aggressive CO2 reduction policies I presume. Look at the reality, UK has among the most ambitious targets set but there's no way in hell they will be met because to do so will basically freeze Grannies to death and send the cost of living + jobless totals through the roof.

More presumption (fully understand and sympathise with the farming issues BTW) There have been many historical periods with strings of difficult seasons, even the 1960s was not a good time to be trying to make hay in the uplands. It's an illogical jump to try to blame rainy summers on CO2 emissions and basically you are being swayed by the never-ending, all pervading green diatribe.

Do I need to point out, this is a major presumption, in fact a whole string of them. Not me 'presuming' the opinion is out there. Most climate threads are laced with this sort of greenwashed propaganda.

The dangerous presumption is being made that 'we' are the cause (not proven) and even more that 'we' can realistically reverse any change if we wanted to - without causing something unexpected and probably worse. Like accidentally initiating a new ice age.

They all seem to be stating their pre-conceived positions on what they think ought to be happening. I was under the impression that Antarctica isn't warming and Antarctic sea ice has been consistently above long term averages for some time. There was a program on the other night with the long haired Scottish bloke informing us that penguins were under threat because Antarctic sea-ice had retreated so much, I thought "?"

Yes that chimes with what I posted a few days ago that really the mechanism for recent reductions is not understood so trying to blame it on CO2 or whatever is currently in vogue does not stand scrutiny.

Whatever it is, how would it have ended up near Bridgenorth? All kinds of stuff can be turn up as glacial debris further north but I would've thought Shropshire almost too far south. Always the possibility it somehow got carried there by people even unintentionally in say a load of lime or building rubble.

An overstated feedback. The ice decline is mainly in late summer when sun at high latitudes is very low and strikes the water at such an oblique angle very little radiation will penetrate. Furthermore, open water will lose a great deal of heat to the air above. The heat loss almost certainly exceeds any supposed solar heating.