BBC Weather Forecasts and Graphics Discussion

[J10]

I largely agree with that, Ian.

I saw yesterday a local forecast with very extensive use of animated synoptics maps on BBC Wales worked very well and told a very good message indeed.

[Andy Bown]

Just had a very good local forecast with a guy called Sean Batty, he showed the current frontal situation with a triple point right over this region. Good explanation of what a triple point is and how it brings the heaviest rain and risk of thunderstorms!

[i luv snow]

with a guy called Sean Batty

I'm sorry but 'LOL'

[J10]

I largely agree with that, Ian.

I saw yesterday a local forecast with very extensive use of animated synoptics maps on BBC Wales worked very well and told a very good message indeed.

The above forecast I mentioned was by Sean Batty too.

[shuggee]

Really can't believe Rob McElwee (yes it is him) has been on News24 and the main BBC1 lunchtime forecast going on and on about the wind - and not an illustrative pressure chart in sight. How on earth, even in these dumbed-down days are a few blue splodges and the odd wind arrow supposed to portray the story? Shocking.

[The Enforcer]

I largely agree with that, Ian.

I saw yesterday a local forecast with very extensive use of animated synoptics maps on BBC Wales worked very well and told a very good message indeed.

I concur with these comments and others about improved forecasting for local news, having seen similar synoptic charts used on the north-west local weather forecast.

Really can't believe Rob McElwee (yes it is him) has been on News24 and the main BBC1 lunchtime forecast going on and on about the wind - and not an illustrative pressure chart in sight. How on earth, even in these dumbed-down days are a few blue splodges and the odd wind arrow supposed to portray the story? Shocking.

Apparently there was an ice threat over Ireland over the weekend. The ice was portrayed by blue splodges, so how are people supposed to tell the difference between that and rain?

[Thundery wintry showers]

Some more analysis: my parents have made the point that the forecasters often spend so long talking about today's weather, and 8am tomorrow, that they've switched off by the time they get around to the rest of the forecast.

I think this may also give a clue as to the main problem with the old-style forecasts. A detailed synoptic analysis would usually be given before the main forecast, leading to non-enthusiasts switching off. There'd also be confusion via people working out which day's synoptic analysis matched which day's forecast, due to the length of the background introduction. Thus, rather than it being the actual synoptic charts that were putting people off, it may merely have been that it took ages for them to get into the actual forecast. As above; that aspect hasn't been helped at all.

Thus, I'm coming around to the view that forecasts shouldn't go into detailed analysis before the main forecast, instead they should just set the scene with a brief mention of today's weather, possibly a synoptic chart or 3-4 day wind arrow/temperature animation (whichever sets the scene best), then get straight on with the forecast. Background analysis should then be done as they go along, e.g. instead of having synoptic charts for days 1-3 and then the forecast, they could have: chart for day 1, forecast for day 1, chart for day 2, forecast for day 2 and so on.

I reckon that if people were provided with the information, for the most part, in direct relation to the bit of forecast immediately afterwards, it would still provide weather enthusiasts with the info, and it would also not confuse non-enthusiasts.

I don't think the "tour around Britain" for 8am helps. People are perfectly capable of focusing solely on their region of the country on a zoomed-out map; the tour results in people spending ages waiting before they see what's going on over their region, whereupon they may switch off. They were better off with the synoptic charts, wind arrows and temperature maps.

[Somerset Squall]

I agree, I think the tour is pretty pointless. I like your idea of chart 1, forecast 1, chart 2, forecast 2 etc. That way I think there will be less people switching off.

Like others in this thread, I am impressed by the local forecasts- good usage of the synoptic charts. If only they could give more time to the national forecasts to do this, something I know many people are hoping for ( despite it being in vain )

The comment about the difference between frost and rain on the maps- I can see that you could confuse them but that would be quite difficult IMO as the rain shows up as bright blue with animated rain and frost shows up as a more subdued blue, similar to what they use for the temperature map (another thing they don't use often).

[johnholmes]

interesting coments there Ian.

Send an e mail to them at the weather centre, not the BBC but the forecasters.

[The Enforcer]

Another couple of observations from the weekend from News 24 weather slots. Mr Fidget was on at one point and he kept blocking the map with OTT full body gestures (Mr Fish would simply move an arm slightly), his final ushering in of some stormy weather occurred over the website page when the map had gone.

More importantly, a later forecast, can't remember which forecaster spent ages on a tour about what the weather WAS doing at 1pm (it was 2-30pm) and then said "but the really important thing is tonight's storm" and had only a few seconds left to cover it.

Mentioning the website page again (the grey circle/raindrop thingy) this seems to stick for a few seconds at the end - wasting valuable forecasting time.

Edited December 4, 2006 by The Enforcer

[Paul_1978_Yorks]

I too found the difference between frost and rain on the BBC map recently pretty confusing. The "frost cover" graphics should be a light blue in my opinion - that way the shade of blue is not too close to that of the rain.

[shuggee]

The frost is supposed to be silver!

(And I've tried adjusting my set :unsure: )

[mettalfabrik]

anybody else hear the radio5 live forecast by everton fox northerly blast at 11/01/07 thats T+312 on GFS!

[January Snowstorm]

Happy New Year January Snowstorm.

Happy New Year John.

I notice your comment earlier about us being lost over here without the UK Met office.

This is indeed quite true though it should be mentioned that the downgrading of the beeb's forecast(ie new graphics)has meant a huge vacuum being left for all.

I used to follow the beebs forecast with great interest and it baffles me how folk in the UK are not more up in arms about a huge downgrading of their service.

I remember in Ireland about 8-10 years ago the Irish TV axed professional Met People from doing the forecast in favour of amatuers who maybe looked the part There was uproar and the pro's were reinstated........rightly so.

Maybe ye guys in the UK should start bombarding the beeb about their current rubbish graphics.

Tolerate the best and nothing else

[PersianPaladin]

Happy New Year John.

I notice your comment earlier about us being lost over here without the UK Met office.

This is indeed quite true though it should be mentioned that the downgrading of the beeb's forecast(ie new graphics)has meant a huge vacuum being left for all.

I used to follow the beebs forecast with great interest and it baffles me how folk in the UK are not more up in arms about a huge downgrading of their service.

I remember in Ireland about 8-10 years ago the Irish TV axed professional Met People from doing the forecast in favour of amatuers who maybe looked the part There was uproar and the pro's were reinstated........rightly so.

Maybe ye guys in the UK should start bombarding the beeb about their current rubbish graphics.

Tolerate the best and nothing else

I know this is off-topic, but I hardly call their new graphics rubbish. They're a lot more accurate and pay a lot more attention to regional differences than the previous graphics did. However, I agree with you that the old days had greater forecasting personalities and included considerably more detail (i.e. general synoptics were given considerably more attention). I suppose this is the only real thing to be nostalgic about.

[John Cox]

Hi JS,

I remember it well and public uproar did prevail.

I hated the amateur presentation and our professional met guys still give a great service with proper synoptic charts.

What I was referring to was the UK met office in general rather than their TV presentation which I agree is dreadful. If I was the UK public I would certainly demand a return to propre syoptic charts. We here in Ireland are spoilt for choice with all the UK and Sky and irish channels we receive.

Edited December 29, 2006 by John Cox

[January Snowstorm]

I know this is off-topic, but I hardly call their new graphics rubbish. They're a lot more accurate and pay a lot more attention to regional differences than the previous graphics did.

Sorry PP but I couldn't disagree with you more

[thunderstrike]

Sorry PP but I couldn't disagree with you more

I also disagree with PP , also the fact of the annoying panning across the map... Why pan across london , when i can see London on the zoomed out view <_<

[Veritas]

I used to follow the beebs forecast with great interest and it baffles me how folk in the UK are not more up in arms about a huge downgrading of their service.

I remember in Ireland about 8-10 years ago the Irish TV axed professional Met People from doing the forecast in favour of amatuers who maybe looked the part There was uproar and the pro's were reinstated........rightly so.

Not quite clear on the connection here. The Beeb still use (the same) professional Met people, and still use the same Met data!

[johnholmes]

interesting that the two complainers are both in Eire!

perhaps they missed the uproar on here, other web sites and in Parliament when the new graphics fist came out. They have been considerably amended since then. Not perfect, some dumbing down-yes, but just about a better presentation than before both nationally and regionally.

What is the problem, has been all along and will continue to be THE problem is the time allocation.

That is NOTHING to do with the Met Office or the forecast staff issuing forecasts on BBC, it is ALL to do with the BBC.

Until they are persuaded to change it nothing will alter.

Write in your thousands to your MP's!

John

Edited January 3, 2007 by johnholmes

[Veritas]

interesting that the two complainers are both in Eire!

perhaps they missed the uproar on here, other web sites and in Parliament when the new graphics fist came out. They have been considerably amended since then. Not perfect, some dumbing down-yes, but just about a better presentation than before both nationally and regionally.

What is the problem, has been all along and will continue to be THE problem is the time allocation.

That is NOTHING to do with the Met Office or the forecast staff issuing forecasts on BBC, it is ALL to do with the BBC.

Until they are persuaded to change it nothing will alter.

Write in your thousands to your MP's!

John

Don't follow - surely the BBC, with two forecasts an hour on BBC News 24, not to mention BBC ONE, Radio 4 et al, provide rather more duration for weather than other broadcasters?

[Thundery wintry showers]

He most likely means the amount of time allocated per forecast, which is a point I agree with.

[johnholmes]

Don't follow - surely the BBC, with two forecasts an hour on BBC News 24, not to mention BBC ONE, Radio 4 et al, provide rather more duration for weather than other broadcasters?

I am referring to the time allocation PER forecast and to BBC 1 prime time weather forecasts following 1pm and 6pm news.

John

be nice also Veritas if you gave your town in your avatar.

many tks

j

Edited January 4, 2007 by johnholmes

[The Enforcer]

Whilst I thought the Meto/BBC forecasts for the snowfall over Tuesday night/Wednesday morning was very accurate at short range, I also thought that its presentation was poor on the live broadcasts. Now I appreciate here that the usual point remains that there isn't enough allocated time. However, with the time allotted, the overnight snow was clearly the main incident to focus on and yet there was no running of the program to show the anticipated migration of the snow through the spine of the country. One forecast I saw jumped to the situation at 5am, with the snow clearing the south. Another forecast ludicrously jumped to 9am with the snow across the Channel and proceeded with the obligatory 'tour of duty'.

[Thundery wintry showers]

It's probably "targeting the audience properly" (I saw an article written by a BBC Weather representative who said that they were trying to target the population specifically at specific times of day). The danger of this is that it assumes a stereotypical person's needs and wants at a particular time of day- and not everybody will fit the stereotype. I'm guessing that the 9am tour thing probably stems from covering people's drive to work.

It's a shame that the BBC Countryfile forecast from earlier this month had to be removed for copyright reasons; I think that was pretty much the ideal forecast. The forecast was informative yet straight to the point, a synoptic chart/animation for day X would precede the forecast for day X, and Peter Gibbs made the forecast interesting and jolly without resorting to subjective opinion.

Another point I'd like to raise is that re. things like "at least it will be mild", I disagree with the view that the BBC's position is necessary in order to keep insurance companies and businesses happy- it isn't a straight choice between displaying a dislike of snow, or displaying a liking towards it. I actually don't see any need for subjective comments saying "this weather type is bad, that weather type is good"- Peter Gibbs got by fine in that aforementioned forecast without resorting to it, and there's plenty of other ways forecasters can make a forecast jolly and interesting. The reality of life is that people have different opinions on weather type preferences, and if the BBC presents a particular opinion- even if it's the majority view- it's bound to cheese off those who don't share it.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Thundery wintry showers
it mysteriously double posted