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The 13th of June enigma


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Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    We are coming up the 13th of June and one of the strangest anomalies in the UK weather statistical books, the 13th of June enigma.

    The 13th of June is the only date in the entire meteorological summer that has yet to record an official maximum of 30.0C+ anywhere in the UK

    The date record is 28.3C set in 1896, 1948 and 1994

    1896

    Posted Image

    1948

    Posted Image

    1994

    Posted Image

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    Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

    wow Mr D I am constantly amazed by the facts you dig up.

    Certainly an unusual one.

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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    wow Mr D I am constantly amazed by the facts you dig up.

    Certainly an unusual one.

    Even more amazingly

    The 16th of April has recorded a higher a maximum than the 13th of June.

    16th April 1949: 29.4C

    Also the 6th of October has recorded a higher maximum than the 13th of June

    6th October 1921: 28.9C

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Very interesting Mr Data, here are the charts...

    12th June 2006...

    Posted Image

    16th April 1949...

    Posted Image

    Both very warm setups.

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    Posted
  • Location: Shrewsbury
  • Location: Shrewsbury

    This is a really odd one I admit- especially considering that according to Torro the 1994 one was at Aboyne- if it can reach 28.3 there it can surely top 30 further south?

    Also in the summer months the records set before the mid-1990s were spread all over the country, eg:

    4 June Glasgow 31.1 1939

    14 June Colmonell Ayrshire 31.7 1896

    18 June Ochtertyre Perthshire 32.2 1898

    14 July Trowbridge Wilts 32.3 1983

    29 July Perdiswell Worcs 34.4 1948

    13 Aug Salisbury 35.6 1911

    24 Aug Llandovery 32.2 1899 & Bude 31.7 1955

    and several from Cheltenham and Barbourne. Since then however they've been virtually confined to the far Southeast corner of England (London, Surrey and Kent; even East Anglia which was also well represented never seems to feature nowadays)

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    • 11 months later...
    Posted
  • Location: South Pole
  • Location: South Pole

    Also in the summer months the records set before the mid-1990s were spread all over the country, eg:

    4 June Glasgow 31.1 1939

    14 June Colmonell Ayrshire 31.7 1896

    18 June Ochtertyre Perthshire 32.2 1898

    14 July Trowbridge Wilts 32.3 1983

    29 July Perdiswell Worcs 34.4 1948

    13 Aug Salisbury 35.6 1911

    24 Aug Llandovery 32.2 1899 & Bude 31.7 1955

    and several from Cheltenham and Barbourne. Since then however they've been virtually confined to the far Southeast corner of England (London, Surrey and Kent; even East Anglia which was also well represented never seems to feature nowadays)

    The other one is South Yorkshire. There is a long standing "record", which to be honest I can't/don't really accept, from September 1911 at Bawtry which apparently recorded 36C that month.

    When was the last time any South Yorkshire site recorded 30C+ in September? When was the last time South Yorkshire recorded the highest temp in the British Isles? What kind of synoptical set up results in temperatures in South Yorkshire being higher than in the south-east when we're talking about temps in the mid-30s? I just cannot see the Doncaster region as a hotspot. You can go slightly further north to the Vale of York, where it is not unsual to see Church Fenton, Dishforth, Leeming, Linton-on-Ouse and Topcliffe recording high summer temps, the topography and altitude is different to South Yorkshire.

    Sorry, I've never bought that one. I only really think temperatures from about 1945 are worth trusting.

    Edited by Nick H
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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    The other one is South Yorkshire. There is a long standing "record", which to be honest I can't/don't really accept, from September 1911 at Bawtry which apparently recorded 36C that month.

    Sorry, I've never bought that one. I only really think temperatures from about 1945 are worth trusting.

    Wasn't it WG Grace who said when given out "Shan't have it, won't have it, can't have it" and some wag said "but you'll have to have it."

    Until the Met Office says otherwise and there would have been an investigation as I'm pretty sure into this, the Met Office will say "you'll have to have it." :)

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: South Pole
  • Location: South Pole

    Wasn't it WG Grace who said when given out "Shan't have it, won't have it, can't have it" and some wag said "but you'll have to have it."

    Until the Met Office says otherwise and there would have been an investigation as I'm pretty sure into this, the Met Office will say "you'll have to have it." :D

    Oh, of course they'll never change it. To do so would put question marks against the whole CET record, and they don't want to destroy 350 years of records obviously. I've said on here before I have little confidence in any of the older records, for the simple reason of the primitive equipment and recording conditions that existed up til recently.

    Raunds is another one which is a joke. When did Northants last record the highest temperature?

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    Posted
  • Location: Shrewsbury
  • Location: Shrewsbury

    The other one is South Yorkshire. There is a long standing "record", which to be honest I can't/don't really accept, from September 1911 at Bawtry which apparently recorded 36C that month.

    When was the last time any South Yorkshire site recorded 30C+ in September? When was the last time South Yorkshire recorded the highest temp in the British Isles? What kind of synoptical set up results in temperatures in South Yorkshire being higher than in the south-east when we're talking about temps in the mid-30s? I just cannot see the Doncaster region as a hotspot. You can go slightly further north to the Vale of York, where it is not unsual to see Church Fenton, Dishforth, Leeming, Linton-on-Ouse and Topcliffe recording high summer temps, the topography and altitude is different to South Yorkshire.

    Sorry, I've never bought that one. I only really think temperatures from about 1945 are worth trusting.

    The area around Doncaster is very low lying (<10m amsl in places), in the lee of the Pennines when a W'ly/Sw'ly blows, and far enough inland not to be plagued by haar etc- surely it could be a hotspot if conditions were right? Similarly east Northants- almost at sea level yet 50-odd miles inland; surely it ought to be warmer than the likes of Gravesend in summer?

    I wonder whether the very recent (since 1990) concentration of high maxima towards the SE really does reflect a synoptic change, with a tendency towards +ve NAO and "Bartlett Highs" leaving only the SE corner under the influence of high pressure (is it me or have most recent "Spanish Plumes" travelled NE rather than more directly N, hitting France and the Low Countries and only clipping the SE corner of England, leaving the north, Wales, SW and W Midlands largely untouched eg late May 2005?) while the Icelandic Lows have become Scottish Lows, reinforcing the "SE v the rest" effect?

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    Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

    re this

    The area around Doncaster is very low lying (<10m amsl in places), in the lee of the Pennines when a W'ly/Sw'ly blows, and far enough inland not to be plagued by haar etc- surely it could be a hotspot if conditions were right? Similarly east Northants- almost at sea level yet 50-odd miles inland; surely it ought to be warmer than the likes of Gravesend in summer?

    I'll look in the 10 year records for here and the 50+years for RAF Finningley and see what that date shows up.

    Its not that often that this area seems to be the hottest place, rare in fact, or even the coldest. The area se and east of Nottingham, from my recollection of time at RCAF Langar in the Vale of Belvoir, seemed more prone to that kind of thing?

    and this comment which seems to have sparked the above comment I've partly replied to

    Sorry, I've never bought that one. I only really think temperatures from about 1945 are worth trusting.

    I have to say that is an unfair and unfounded comment. As someone involved professionally with Met stations, one being the area(Doncaster) you refer to I can assure you that the rigorous checks were just as rigorous prior to 1945 as post 1945, so that remark is totally incorrect.

    E mail the Met Office and ask if they would care to comment.

    the site at Bawtry, to my knowledge, was never really accepted as a full official site, even though it had a Met Office responsible to No 1 Bomber Command for many years.

    I may be wrong but I will try and check.

    ref the record for RAF Finningley for September

    it is 30.0C on 5th September 1949

    Edited by johnholmes
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    Posted
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent

    I think the UHI is almost entirely responsible for the SE & greater London in particular dominating the recent records. I think particularly as the overnight lows are so much higher than any rural or small town location. It's very difficult for these non-urban stations to record higher temperatures in "heatwave" conditions. I've often wondered whether temperatures from the Greater London area, even from official stations, shouuld be disregarded these days for record purposes.

    Dave

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    Posted
  • Location: Shrewsbury
  • Location: Shrewsbury

    RE UHIs:

    I'd be inclined to agree if London was the only large urban area in the UK- but it isn't and besides rural Kent and Surrey (plus semi-rural Heathrow which must be at best on the fringe of the heat island) have provided many of the most recent SE-focused records. Perhaps the saving grace of summer 2007 was that the SE missed out on the heat as well (Hampstead's highest temperature was only 28.9, and it didn't top 25 in June or July which has been unheard of around London in recent summers though quite normal outside the SE), but it took some highly unusual conditions to achieve that whereas pre-1990 it was quite common.

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    Posted
  • Location: on A50 Staffs/Derbys border 151m/495ft
  • Location: on A50 Staffs/Derbys border 151m/495ft

    from my recollection of time at RCAF Langar in the Vale of Belvoir

    Did my parachute jump there. They made me insure myself for £10 million in case I dropped down the chimney of the tractor factory.

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    Even more amazingly

    The 16th of April has recorded a higher a maximum than the 13th of June.

    16th April 1949: 29.4C

    Also the 6th of October has recorded a higher maximum than the 13th of June

    6th October 1921: 28.9C

    Actually, I think your comment is a bit unfair! 1949 was one of the finest spring/summers of the century, certainly in the top 5. The other 4 were: 1947, 1959, 1975, & 1976.

    I agree it is surprising that 13/6/ has never exceeded 30C. in the UK, but the second week in June is seldom warm I find. June used to boast the highest temps of the summer quite frequently up until about 1976, but these days the highest temps come much later on.

    Certainly safe for this year! My prediction for the rest of the month is: it will gradually warm up again, as winds bend back to west, then south-west, with the Azores high re-asserting itself. Last week in June should be very nice indeed, with temps 25C+ over most of England & Wales :acute: That's my prediction anyway, lol.

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    Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

    Did my parachute jump there. They made me insure myself for £10 million in case I dropped down the chimney of the tractor factory.

    I wonder if that tractor factory is what used to be the AV Roe place? They used to re-build one Shackleton from maybe 2 or 3 others that originally flew in.

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    Posted
  • Location: South Pole
  • Location: South Pole

    It may be surprising that June 13 has yet to record a temperature of 30.0C or greater, but let's not forget

    1. the seas are by no means warm at that date

    2. there is a historical pattern that the second week of June is somewhat unsettled

    3. 30C is a totally arbitrary temperature

    4. the facts that July 24 has never seen a temperature higher than 32.6C, nor July 14 no higher than 32.3C and August 30 has only recorded an even 30.0C once on the British mainland, in 1906 at Maidenhead (in times which as you know I believe produced unreliable records and at a site long since defunct) are in many ways, far more remarkable than the June 13 anomaly.

    Incidentally, TORRO has flagged the Bawtry 1906 reading as either being from a "rather sheltered site" or "more than 2C above adjacent stations".

    Edited by Nick H
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    • 11 months later...
    Posted
  • Location: Southsea, Portsmouth, HANTS, UK
  • Location: Southsea, Portsmouth, HANTS, UK

    Well it would appear 2009 is not going to challenge this enigma. Temps tomorrow look like getting between 20-25C but not much beyond that.

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    • 11 months later...
    • 1 year later...
    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    And no 30C this time around. Not only that, the 29th September, 30th September, 1st of October and 2nd of October 2011 have all recorded a higher maxima that has ever been officially recorded for the 13th of June. The 3rd of October as far as we know has equalled it.

    The 1st of Octobers for 1908, 1985 and 2011 have all recorded a maximum higher that has been ever been recorded for the 13th of June.

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Anything but mild south-westeries in winter
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl

    It really is a mind-boggling phenomenon.

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    Posted
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl
  • Weather Preferences: obviously snow!
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl

    any equivalent in winter guys? eg certain date never being an ice day anywhere between 01 Dec and 28th Feb

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    Posted
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Anything but mild south-westeries in winter
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl

    No temperature below -15C has ever been recorded on the 28th of February, the same cannot be said for any other date in winter.

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