Where do you stand on AGW?

[Michael Winston]

OON...politicians and big business are often linked...especially at the top level.

Hear, hear! However, I'd substitute 'always' for 'often' in that sentence, PP. :lol:

Kind regards,

Mike.

Its 12C here on the 9th of July. Hard to talk about the merits of the AGW theory and keep a straight face tbh.

My thoughts exactly, Darkman.

Kind regards,

Mike.

P.S. Here's an interesting story.........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6286484.stm

Edited July 10, 2007 by Winston

[biffvernon]

Why do some people, especially on this forum, confuse local weather with global climate?

And why do some people, especially on this forum, seem incapable of understanding climate science?

[Iceberg]

And why do people keep dragging out the 70's ice age theory. I don't want to shout, but they bare no relationship at all.

The ice age theory was as has already been mentioned been taken completely out of context, but to start with it was a best a group of british scientists with 3 papers behind them, rather than AGW with 100 years of background, a cast of '000's and hundreds of peer reviewed papers.

[The Eagle]

I'm going to have to stick up for Darkman and suggest that SURELY he was joking?!

Tongue in cheek Id say though no less valid then those pointing to flooding recently in parts of England and shouting 'Global warming!' from the hill tops.

The recent news about unusually cold weather across some of the infrequent landmasses in the south Southern Hemisphere is most interesting. New Zealand imparticular has had a very cold winter. Of course you rarely hear about that.

[PersianPaladin]

[snip]

Think you should steer clear of the whiskey mate.

[Wynn D Woo]

Tongue in cheek Id say though no less valid then those pointing to flooding recently in parts of England and shouting 'Global warming!' from the hill tops.

The recent news about unusually cold weather across some of the infrequent landmasses in the south Southern Hemisphere is most interesting. New Zealand imparticular has had a very cold winter. Of course you rarely hear about that.

Very true - especially of the BBC who report every possible warm event and completely ignore any cold events.

I have gone with option 2 for now.

[biffvernon]

as yet undetermined?

Well of course if you go to enough significant figures then everything is undetermined. What a daft option.

[Bobby]

Its 12C here on the 9th of July. Hard to talk about the merits of the AGW theory and keep a straight face tbh.

So, we've had the warmest ever July, warmest ever month, warmest ever day in many parts of the country, one of the warmest ever summers, the warmest ever Setptember, the warmest ever Autumn, one of the warmest ever winters, a very warm spring and an above average summer so far, not to mention the warmest ever 12 month period and the warmest ever first 6 months of a year, all in the last year, yet one cool day somehow disproves global warming?

Fantastic logic there.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Magpie

[The Eagle]

all in the last year

hmm are you sure about that? You have got the relevant facts and figures to back this claim?

[Bobby]

hmm are you sure about that? You have got the relevant facts and figures to back this claim?

I'm not going to look up the articles but those aren't claims, they are statistical fact. I'm sure other people on this forum will confirm, or you can look up those facts for yourself, don't have time at the moment.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Magpie

[The Eagle]

they are statistical fact.

You say its statistical fact yet you dont have a source? You have to 'look up articles'? I await the numbers with interest.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Darkman

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Very true - especially of the BBC who report every possible warm event and completely ignore any cold events.

Ignore any cold event?!!! What about every time it sleets in Kent?

[biffvernon]

Oh come off it Darkman, Magpie's right. It's common knowledge to anyone who keeps abreast of what's going on, on this forum or elsewhere in the weather watching world. Anyway it was 24 degrees in my Lincolnshire garden today so that makes up for the cool of Birmingham. :lol:

Edited July 10, 2007 by biffvernon

[senior ridge]

And why do people keep dragging out the 70's ice age theory. I don't want to shout, but they bare no relationship at all.

The ice age theory was as has already been mentioned been taken completely out of context, but to start with it was a best a group of british scientists with 3 papers behind them, rather than AGW with 100 years of background, a cast of '000's and hundreds of peer reviewed papers.

Because those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s remember this and how wrong the scientists (scaremongers?) were.

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose" tr: More things change, the more they remain the same

[rc28]

You say its statistical fact yet you dont have a source? You have to 'look up articles'? I await the numbers with interest.

Dm, magpie is right, give it a rest. Last july was indeed the warmest on record etc ,If you follow the weather you'd know this too.

[HighPressure]

Dm, magpie is right, give it a rest. Last july was indeed the warmest on record etc ,If you follow the weather you'd know this too.

I posted this extract on another thread regarding the term propaganda:

Propaganda [from modern Latin: 'Propaganda Fide', literally “propagating the faith”] is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of people. Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. The most effective propaganda is often completely truthful, but some propaganda presents facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience.

We have records for a tiny slice of time, we break records every year with or without GW (remember 1976), the wettest, the sunniest, the warmest, the hottest and so on. Its like having 2 weeks weather records and stating today was the warmest recorded, tomorrow could be the wettest day.

Edited July 10, 2007 by HighPressure

[rc28]

I posted this extract on another thread regarding the term propaganda:

Propaganda [from modern Latin: 'Propaganda Fide', literally “propagating the faith”] is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of people. Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. The most effective propaganda is often completely truthful, but some propaganda presents facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience.

We have records for a tiny slice of time, we break records every year with or without GW (remember 1976), the wettest, the sunniest, the warmest, the hottest and so on. Its like having 2 weeks weather records and stating today was the warmest recorded, tomorrow could be the wettest day.

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to say that the fact that there have been so many records broken is a sign of AGW, I was merely criticising DM for suggesting what magpie said was wrong, which is not true-magpie is right in the facts he stated, anyone who follows the weaher would know this.

I myself am still sort of on the fence on this whole issue but I do feel that human activity must be having some kind of impact on climate when you think about the amount of additional greenhouse gases we release into the atmosphere. Is it not simple physics that when the amount of chemicals in the atmosphere changes there is an impact on world temperatures? But then again I feel the earth's climate and it's cycles are so complicated that maybe we dont know the full picture at all

[PersianPaladin]

You say its statistical fact yet you dont have a source? You have to 'look up articles'? I await the numbers with interest.

Darkman....I think magpie in this case, is right.

[pottyprof]

Scientists/medics etc are under political pressure. Why not our GW scientists?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=3362833

[Iceberg]

Because those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s remember this and how wrong the scientists (scaremongers?) were.

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose" tr: More things change, the more they remain the same

Ha, get you, so because a hand full of scientists where wrong 30 years ago everything that the 1000's of climate scientists come up with now is incorrect or doubtfull.

[biffvernon]

Because those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s remember this and how wrong the scientists (scaremongers?) were.

I was already grown up in the 70s and 80s and thought the talk of impending ice age very silly. By the late 70s I had introduced the concept and likelihood of anthropogenic global warming into my teaching. The science seemed pretty secure to me at that time and it's good to see that the idea has met with almost universal acceptance in the scientific community. Why there are still some folk, even on this forum, who don't see it, is a mystery but perhaps it is just part of the human condition to be able to believe three impossible things before breakfast.

[Gray-Wolf]

I tried for option 5, much worse than the IPCC predictions (in light of the report being an expigated version courtesy of USA , China, Australia and India.

Topsy turvey weather is the thing to watch for to see the effects of AGW not only global temps and the world is having plenty of that at present!

[noggin]

I remember record breaking cold spells from the 1950s to the early 80s. A few examples: 1956 (a very good year!), Winter 62/63, and I particularly remember Michael Fish having to have new symbols made to put on his weather map for minus28 degrees in about 1980.

It is natural cycles...they last for about 30 years. A cold cycle is due.

[noggin]

I was already grown up in the 70s and 80s and thought the talk of impending ice age very silly. By the late 70s I had introduced the concept and likelihood of anthropogenic global warming into my teaching.

Do you not think that in another few years or so, the current concept might be looking very silly? Genuine query, no offence intended. B)

Edited July 11, 2007 by noggin

[Jonnymac]

Option 2!

It's the closest to 'I don't know who's science to believe'.

I'm of the opinion (as many appear to be) that regardless of mans impact we all have a duty to keep our planet clean.

There aint many other earths, in the near vicinity, that we can move to; so we'd best look after this one.

J