Arctic ice

[Chris Knight]

I was always lead to believe that 1" of forecast rain would give 4" of snow if it fell as snow.

Even that 250mm at Svalbard is 1 metre if it falls as snow?

The thing is with the Arctic is there is moisture around from the surrounding ocean and also from the areas that do melt back in the warmer months. The Antarctic is all land and ice and very dry due to the distances involved to open water.

The two cannot be compared really.

According to NOAA, dry fresh snow falling at temperatures of -1 to -20 degrees F can give a depth of up to 50 inches per 1 inch water equivalent, and 100 inches at -21 to -40 F!

link

Now, what's that in metric thingies?

[Chris Knight]

According to NOAA, dry fresh snow falling at temperatures of -1 to -20 degrees F can give a depth of up to 50 inches per 1 inch water equivalent, and 100 inches at -21 to -40 F!

link

Now, what's that in metric thingies?

Where's Pottyprof?

This link tells you more than you would ever want to know about snow!

[Devonian]

I read elsewhere that the camera has drifted south to about 85N towards the Fram Straight. Arctic ice does move about, and a lot leaves the Arctic via the Fram Straight.

So I think that it's a reasonable possibility.

So, the camera may now be nearer a source of moisture and perhaps to somewhat warmer air.

[doctormog]

I read elsewhere that the camera has drifted south to about 85N towards the Fram Straight. Arctic ice does move about, and a lot leaves the Arctic via the Fram Straight.

So I think that it's a reasonable possibility.

So, the camera may now be nearer a source of moisture and perhaps to somewhat warmer air.

Here you go, just to back up that statement: http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/images/weatherd...08/pos_2008.gif

[SnowBear]

That makes a heck of a lot of difference, if the drift is that much then that webcam is probably not even anywhere near the North Pole.

[bluecon]

We have spashdown!

Couldn't get an image update yesterday but cam 2 had

either a very big dumping on the snow surface or a lot of 'reduction' due to melt don't cha' think?

This isn't a race bluecon, pretty serious stuff if you ask me.

The sight of Kilimanjaro without it's snowy peak was bad enough but what is an ice free pole going to mean (like any of us can know).

So far much more ice in the Arctic than at this time last year.

Kilimanjaro not in Arctic.

The postman's just delivered a brochure from Quark expeditions full of wonderful cruises to the Arctic and Antartica

www.quark-expeditions.co.uk

It all looks amazing but can't help but wonder, if the ice is so fragile, is it such a good idea to have ice breakers cruising back and forth?

Us Canadians alrady use huge diesel trucks to run thousands of trips across the Arctic ice in the Winter delivering supplies throughout the Arctic.

Edited July 9, 2008 by bluecon

[Gray-Wolf]

Shows how snow starved we are in this country! If you 'flip flop' the two images you'll plainly see how the rain is washing the snow cover away......white an' fluffy my ass, old and holey more like.

Any more ideas why our unmanned web cam changed position so drastically?

[jethro]

Any more ideas why our unmanned web cam changed position so drastically?

Pushed by a Polar Bear who's fed up with everyone and their uncle taking his picture without permission.

[Gray-Wolf]

Pushed by a Polar Bear who's fed up with everyone and their uncle taking his picture without permission.

[Weather-history]

Here's a short comment that I have found

Investigations in various districts of the northernmost Atlantic show that there has been an increase of sea temperature and also of salinity. The warming has resulted in a reduction of the thickness of the ice in the Polar Sea. Pack-ice is also less extensive in general. In fact, the shipping season for Spitsbergen coalfields is now about seven months as against three months at the beginning of the century."

Date this comment was made?

January 1950

[millennia]

?

So man can do in 'micro climates' but doesn't 'do in' macro climates???

From what I can see of the 'Russian' side of things the ice has melted back from the coasts and if things occur like last year then we can expect the open water pack (which is well fragmented) to rotate clockwise with the ice melting as it passes Bering straights (as it did last year).

If I remember correctly the melt of the ice whilst it rotated was the 'fastest spurt' of ice decay in last seasons record melt and consitions seem just right for that to occur again now the Alaskan sector is clear of all ice.

2 weeks and check again I'd say

That is going to have to be one HELL of a spurt...

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/..._timeseries.png

[Admiral_Bobski]

What's even more interesting than the fact that this year's melt is more moderate than last year's melt is the fact that this year's melt is more moderate despite the fact that there is far less multi-year ice this year.

CB

[millennia]

What's even more interesting than the fact that this year's melt is more moderate than last year's melt is the fact that this year's melt is more moderate despite the fact that there is far less multi-year ice this year.

CB

That pesky Earth just won't do as it's told will it CB?

[The Eagle]

Its unlikely now that this years melt is going to come close to last years. What we have atm is a recovery - there is no two ways about it. Also the fact that no warm plumes are getting into artic regions this time which in itself has been very unusual over the last 15 years not to have so many warm plumes. If this current trend continues we should see a marked increase in Ice this winter - whether this will spawn large areas of recovered or new multi year ice remains to be seen. The current trend cannot be seen as anything other then very encouraging. Of course there will be local variations in the Artic latitudes which no doubt the GW crowd will point to but generally the trend in Artic Ice this year is extremely positive.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Darkman

[Iceberg]

Let's hope your right, but we are far far away from the low point for last year time wise.

[The Eagle]

Let's hope your right, but we are far far away from the low point for last year time wise.

I agree with you - its still early enough but the facts speak for themselves. In fact if the trend continues it could well end up at the 30 year average or closer to it then to last years melt.

[bluecon]

That is going to have to be one HELL of a spurt...

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/..._timeseries.png

I am anxiuously awaiting the BBC article highlighting the slow melt in the Arctic.

[bluecon]

According to NOAA, dry fresh snow falling at temperatures of -1 to -20 degrees F can give a depth of up to 50 inches per 1 inch water equivalent, and 100 inches at -21 to -40 F!

link

Now, what's that in metric thingies?

2.54 cm = 1 inch

to convert minus farenheit add 32 multiplied by 5/9ths

examples

-21F + 32 =53 * 5/9= -30C

-40F + 32 =72 * 5/9= -40C

Edited July 10, 2008 by bluecon

[Chris Knight]

2.54 cm = 1 inch

to convert minus farenheit add 32 multiplied by 5/9ths

examples

-21F + 32 =53 * 5/9= -30C

-40F + 32 =72 * 5/9= -40C

Thanks bluecon .

Nice to know that there's common ground at -40 deg

[Nick L]

I am anxiuously awaiting the BBC article highlighting the slow melt in the Arctic.

The doom and gloom brigade won't speak a word of it...

[The Eagle]

The doom and gloom brigade won't speak a word of it...

Well, they should. There is almost 1 million sq km's more sea ice then this time last year in the Artic. The trend right now could see us end very close to the 30 year average and that is far far up on last year. With Winter knocking on the door then are we about to see a huge improvement in sea ice totals not seen for many years? We will know in October but the AGW lobby should acknowledge these hard facts instead of waffling on oblivious to them.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Darkman

[Nick L]

Well, they should. There is almost 1 million sq km's more sea ice then this time last year in the Artic. The trend right now could see us end very close to the 30 year average and that is far far up on last year. With Winter knocking on the door then are we about to see a huge improvement in sea ice totals not seen for many years? We will know in October but the AGW lobby should acknowledge these hard facts when continuing their agenda.

The thing is, I have never seen a news story on the BBC going against the global warming theory. The closest they came was an Horizon programme a few years ago on the potential Gulf Stream shut down - but even that would be caused by global warming.

Yes the BBC SHOULD, but they most probably WON'T. Unless the UK gets covered in 6 feet of snow they will most likely ignore it. Unfortunately I just think this is a natural fluctuation, too early to call anything just yet.

[Richie V]

Very comforting indeed, I hope this is not mother nature teesing us. Who knows.... we will see.

Mabe we should ask dave allen and his loyal troop of grebes!! :lol:

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/p...=09&sy=2008

[0000]

What if we all keep our freezer doors open every other tuesday? :lol:

[jethro]

What if we all keep our freezer doors open every other tuesday? :o

:lol: For optimum effect I think we should make sure they're orientated due North. Extra brownie points for those with chest freezers.