General Climate Change Discussion

[Methuselah]

I'm glad I'm not the only 'Happy Larry' in this country

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...se-1742759.html

Ian. That guys really does have it bad!

[noggin]

I'm glad I'm not the only 'Happy Larry' in this country

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...se-1742759.html

Cheer up, G-W...........for as long as I have been around there has always been something that will put an end to mankind/civilisation as we know it/ life on Earth. It just happens to be AGW/GW/CC this time around.

'Twas ever thus and I'll bet that it will be thus for ever more too!

[Thundery wintry showers]

Unfortunately it's like the "crying wolf" thing. Just because we've been warned of catastrophes that turned out to be scaremongering, it doesn't mean that all potential catastrophes are unfounded.

Personally I think the abuse of the Earth's resources will get us some way or another unless we become rather more sustainable about it- if AGW doesn't get us, peak oil, increasing difficulties in extraction of remaining oil and the like probably will. But by "get us" I don't envisage the human race being wiped out- rather, I envisage a risk of very hard times ahead.

[noggin]

I haven't seen this chap getting a mention on here (but stand to be corrected!) May I introduce Ian Plimer....http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/3755623/part_6/meet-the-man-who-has-exposed-the-great-climate-change-con-trick.thtml

PS maybe not, link doesn't seem to work.......

Try again http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/fe...con-trick.thtml

Edited July 14, 2009 by noggin

[Gray-Wolf]

Never mind! personally I feel both the Warmist camp and the cooler fringe are right and we are currently in a 'cold phase' of a natural cycle (impacted by both low solar activity and a novel arrangement of natural drivers) and ,had it not been for the current rate of AGW, we'd have been in our own 'little ice age' by now:D

P.S. Many a true thing is spoken in Jest.........

[laserguy]

Personally I think the abuse of the Earth's resources will get us some way or another unless we become rather more sustainable about it- if AGW doesn't get us, peak oil, increasing difficulties in extraction of remaining oil and the like probably will. But by "get us" I don't envisage the human race being wiped out- rather, I envisage a risk of very hard times ahead.

Bingo! Except the bit about 'AGW'. And I'm not so sure about the 'abuse' of Earth's resources,unless that translates as too many of us drinking from a cup which is almost down to the dregs. Oh yes,something almighty has got to give pretty soon.

Meanwhile....

'Read all about it - carbon dioxide causes cooling. Stop those emissions right now to tackle the incoming Ice Age'!!

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/8YearTemps.jpg

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

Never mind! personally I feel both the Warmist camp and the cooler fringe are right and we are currently in a 'cold phase' of a natural cycle (impacted by both low solar activity and a novel arrangement of natural drivers) and ,had it not been for the current rate of AGW, we'd have been in our own 'little ice age' by now:D

P.S. Many a true thing is spoken in Jest.........

The cool cycles are only 'just' kicking in.

With reference to the Independent article, I believe there is some truth in that. I think food, both quantity and price and fuel will become a major issue. Over recent years with much wetter conditions and very cold blasts we have seen the delay in wheat and maize, the destruction of huge crops etc etc. Anyone notice how certain foodstuffs have shot up in price over last 2-3 years? Butter 3 years ago 54p in Tesco now 94p, eggs half dozen for under a quid now £1-40 more like, pasta and rice gone up by a 3rd etc etc. Crop failures....watch out for them....and its not due to warmer and drier conditions.

BFTP

Edited July 14, 2009 by BLAST FROM THE PAST

[Solar Cycles]

I haven't seen this chap getting a mention on here (but stand to be corrected!) May I introduce Ian Plimer....http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/3755623/part_6/meet-the-man-who-has-exposed-the-great-climate-change-con-trick.thtml

PS maybe not, link doesn't seem to work.......

Try again http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/fe...con-trick.thtml

Can't wait for the book to be released over here,no doubt the warmists will do their upmost to belittle this!!! I've said it before and I'll say it again, the clock is ticking, it will soon become very apparent that we have been led up the garden path. Historians will look back with bemusent, as to how we were all duped into buying into this!!

[laserguy]

Can't wait for the book to be released over here,no doubt the warmists will do their upmost to belittle this!!! I've said it before and I'll say it again, the clock is ticking, it will soon become very apparent that we have been led up the garden path. Historians will look back with bemusent, as to how we were all duped into buying into this!!

Ha! I'm looking on with bemusement right now and have been for a long while,as to how so many folk were/are still being duped! As you rightly point out,not long before the hammer drops.

[Iceberg]

Yes and I am waiting for the deniers to roast in Hell, to pay for the children that have died due to the inaction that they have helped cause....

We can all keep up this rubbish, but talk about dupes, cons and deniers roasting in hell doesn't really help no matter how many times it's said.

Ian Plimer,

He's the mining expert isn't he, who gets x amount a year from the coal industry, believes that El Nino is caused by earthquakes.

See it didn't take long to discredit him.

[Methuselah]

Ian Plimer,

He's the mining expert isn't he, who gets x amount a year from the coal industry, believes that El Nino is caused by earthquakes.

See it didn't take long to discredit him.

Some people really must be incredibly desperate to find anything that supports their claims? There are some very valid reasons for being sceptical of many of the wilder claims made by the proponents of AGW theory. But leaping with joy at such palpable nonsense as this doesn't do anyone much credit...

IMO, such claims are on a par with the witterings of Ken Ring, David Icke and Prince Charles!

[VillagePlank]

See it didn't take long to discredit him.

There seems to be a consensus on these boards that a discredited guy must necessarily be wrong. You might like to argue that it is more likely that he is wrong, but then I've made huge screw ups in my 35 years, and I wouldn't want my thoughts, today, to be judged on stuff I'd done previously.

Logically, each idea stands and falls on it's merits - a meritocracy. If that is not the case, and Pilmer said that the Earth orbits the Sun, would you necessarily invoke your consensus of discredititation? Or would you simply agree because that's what you think, too? I suspect it's the later. Discrediting only works for those of whose opinions you do not agree with.

I, for one, do not know whether he is actually right or wrong ...

Edited July 14, 2009 by VillagePlank

[laserguy]

Yes and I am waiting for the deniers to roast in Hell, to pay for the children that have died due to the inaction that they have helped cause....

One,just one single substantiated case where one person has suffered/died due to anthro CO2-inspired 'climate change',please. You cannot,and will not ever find it. I'm sorry but I have to say that I think AGW 'believers' - and that is all they are because the evidence/science/observations are in complete contradiction - are truly stark,staring bonkers and will soon be observed howling at the moon. Now if we want to talk about the very real suffering and death being dealt out as the world's most desperate unfortunates starve due to food acreage being handed over to bio-fuel crop production in order to 'tackle' a non-existant man-made climate change...

[VillagePlank]

'Read all about it - carbon dioxide causes cooling. Stop those emissions right now to tackle the incoming Ice Age'!!

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/8YearTemps.jpg

Yeah - this is actually concerning. There is good anecdotal evidence that the Earth has a maximum temperature, and that once it's reached the temperature plummets dramatically. Look at the Vostok ice-core record, and try to explain why the peaks of Earth temperature are nearly constant over geological timescales. If we are causing warming, and we hit the maximum, then the doom-sayers will be right, but for all the wrong reasons.

Edited July 14, 2009 by VillagePlank

[Solar Cycles]

Some people really must be incredibly desperate to find anything that supports their claims? There are some very valid reasons for being sceptical of many of the wilder claims made by the proponents of AGW theory. But leaping with joy at such palpable nonsense as this doesn't do anyone much credit...

IMO, such claims are on a par with the witterings of Ken Ring, David Icke and Prince Charles!

You missed James Hansen, and Michael Mann!!!

[noggin]

Yes and I am waiting for the deniers to roast in Hell, to pay for the children that have died due to the inaction that they have helped cause....

This is horrible. What are you talking about, Iceberg?

[Solar Cycles]

Yes and I am waiting for the deniers to roast in Hell, to pay for the children that have died due to the inaction that they have helped cause....

We can all keep up this rubbish, but talk about dupes, cons and deniers roasting in hell doesn't really help no matter how many times it's said.

Ian Plimer,

He's the mining expert isn't he, who gets x amount a year from the coal industry, believes that El Nino is caused by earthquakes.

See it didn't take long to discredit him.

Why is he talking rubbish Iceberg? You base all your evidence on predictions and assumptions, as do most of us! My stance still remains the same, AGW plays a very small part in tempearture rises. Their is no evidence to suggest otherwise, other than the above!

[jethro]

Historically warm periods have been much kinder to populations than cold ones, if we have managed to warm the atmosphere and extend the growing season thus giving us a greater chance to feed people, I'd say it's not entirely a bad thing. Cold kills far more people than warmth. The evidence for drastic sea level rises is speculative (to put it kindly), if it does happen it will be such a gradual process that will allow more than enough time for re-location. Irrespective of the validity of the science, I find it very difficult to see anything other than positives for a globally warmer world, there's an increasing number of people to feed, we need to be able to do that.

I do wish this article explained how climate change has caused this, I'm struggling to see the connection myself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8146995.stm

Time will tell......

http://www.examiner.com/x-13886-New-Haven-...-global-warming

[pottyprof]

I do wish this article explained how climate change has caused this, I'm struggling to see the connection myself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8146995.stm

Well.. They chose the words 'climate change' I don't think that they were referring to the warming flavour though.. Surely not??

[Solar Cycles]

Historically warm periods have been much kinder to populations than cold ones, if we have managed to warm the atmosphere and extend the growing season thus giving us a greater chance to feed people, I'd say it's not entirely a bad thing. Cold kills far more people than warmth. The evidence for drastic sea level rises is speculative (to put it kindly), if it does happen it will be such a gradual process that will allow more than enough time for re-location. Irrespective of the validity of the science, I find it very difficult to see anything other than positives for a globally warmer world, there's an increasing number of people to feed, we need to be able to do that.

I do wish this article explained how climate change has caused this, I'm struggling to see the connection myself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8146995.stm

Time will tell......

http://www.examiner.com/x-13886-New-Haven-...-global-warming

Typical beeb nonsense! It's about time the beeb went back to basics, and started reporting facts in a unbiased way. Talk about any extreme weather event being attributed to AGW!

[Methuselah]

Historically warm periods have been much kinder to populations than cold ones, if we have managed to warm the atmosphere and extend the growing season thus giving us a greater chance to feed people, I'd say it's not entirely a bad thing. Cold kills far more people than warmth. The evidence for drastic sea level rises is speculative (to put it kindly), if it does happen it will be such a gradual process that will allow more than enough time for re-location. Irrespective of the validity of the science, I find it very difficult to see anything other than positives for a globally warmer world, there's an increasing number of people to feed, we need to be able to do that.

I do wish this article explained how climate change has caused this, I'm struggling to see the connection myself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8146995.stm

Time will tell......

http://www.examiner.com/x-13886-New-Haven-...-global-warming

Good points Jethro...As I firmly believe that the greater part of Climate Change is natural rather than manmade, any decisions to 'reverse' global warming must be open to proper scrutiny...

I can't see how a one-off 'freak' cold (or hot) spell ANYWHERE in the world can be put down to Climate Change; natural climate variablity, yes. I think it's another case of folks clutching at anything that they think might support their personal beliefs?

[VillagePlank]

I think it's another case of folks clutching at anything that they think might support their personal beliefs?

It is, unfortunately, the human condition that such Confirmation Bias exists. It affects all of us.

[Iceberg]

Cold kills far more people than warmth.

An interesting idea that I've heard alot of and this isn't aimed at you Jethro.

But..

1) Why do the cooler climes of this world have less deaths, less diseases and generally have a higher level of GDP ?.

There is alot of evidence to suggest that switching from a cool climate to a temperate climate is benificial but that switching from a temperature to a tropical is NOT and a tropical to an even warmer climate is definately NOT good news. So yes I am sure the Russians, Canadians and Europeans would be happier (assuming no massive sea-level rise) but not the rest.

China has done a lot of study on climate change and is real worried about a warming world.

I really don't think that more people die of cold than heat in this world of ours.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Iceberg

[Solar Cycles]

Good points Jethro...As I firmly believe that the greater part of Climate Change is natural rather than manmade, any decisions to 'reverse' global warming must be open to proper scrutiny...

I can't see how a one-off 'freak' cold (or hot) spell ANYWHERE in the world can be put down to Climate Change; natural climate variablity, yes. I think it's another case of folks clutching at anything that they think might support their personal beliefs?

The Beeb having been pushing AGW agenda stories to the limit, it really is shoddy reporting! Privatising the beeb would be a step in the right direction!!

[Admiral_Bobski]

This is horrible. What are you talking about, Iceberg?

In defense of Iceberg, I think he was merely pointing out that it is easy to write inflammatory rhetoric without any justification.

I also have to agree with Iceberg that repeated references to AGW as a scam, a fraud, a con or a swindle don't help anyone or do anyone any favours.

Yes, there are scam-artists out there who are milking AGW for everything it's worth, but does that make the science itself a con or a swindle?

As a means of comparison, do fraudulent televangelists prove that God does not exist?

I believe that the science behind AGW is mostly honest, investigated by scientists who are no more conniving or wicked than scientists in any other field.

I also think that it is flawed, but that's a long way from it being a con.

If governments, businesses and other organisations are conning us with regards AGW then that's one thing (and largely unsurprising), but AGW itself is not a con or a scam or a fraud. It's just wrong. In my opinion.

CB