2009 - Snow-patches Surviving On Scottish Mountains

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Fresh snow in June, how often does that occur?

[firefly]

Fresh snow in June, how often does that occur?

Not uncommon at all.

Last year it snowed on Ben Nevis on the 20th June, and on the Cairngorms around the 13th (if memory serves me correctly). 2007 it snowed in June, too. July snows are not unknown, though rare. August is the month when least snow falls, though it has happened on the highest hills.

CMD, the hills "to the north and west" of Ben More, when viewed from the Port Glasgow-Langbank road, are the Ben Lui hills beside Tyndrum. I'm not sure how many of the hills are visible, but Ben Lui certainly is prominent. In fact, you can see it from the mate when passing Dumbarton rock, looking up the length of Loch Lomond. A good 35-37 mile line of sight.

[Mark H]

Ah, Tinto hill. That is one of my favourites. I remember it well from my few journeys into Scotland. I had cause to deliver quite close to it one day & was surprised how small & dissapointing it is when you are close to it!

LOL,I live 5 mins away from Tinto and it does seem to get smaller the closer you get to it,however its quite a steep walk for such a small hill (2300ft i think),and the views on a fine day can be spectacular.

[firefly]

My last post should have read M-8 (as in the motorway), but the zany text-changer on this forum converted my assumed text speak!

[firefly]

Fresh snow in June, how often does that occur?

From the 16th June 2008, on Braeriach. Note how the snow has fallen on Braeriach, but not on Cairn Toul, which is slightly farther south. This often happens when the snow comes from the north.

This photograph shows the last recorded snow of the 'old' 2008 season, which fell on Ben Nevis on the 20th June 2008. The next fall of snow (recorded) was in September.

[Norrance]

FAO Firefly [or others in the know].

I often spend spend a week or so visiting relatives in the Spey valley in Aviemore or in Kingussie in the Scottish School Summer holidays. I can remember snow falling on the higher peaks above about 3500 feet in the second week of July in one fairly recent year and a fairly cold week even on lower ground. I can't remember which year it was though. Perhaps 2004/5/6?

Any ideas?

Going to be up there this year for a couple of days in early July and will try to get up to tops before heading across to Skye.

Despite many visits to the area I have never seen August snow falling though I believe it has happened. I have seen snow in earlyish September though to relatively low levels.

Edit. I am going to be up at Loch Tay this wekend so will have a look out for the Ben Lawers / Glen Lyon and also Ben More snow patches if the skies are clear.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Norrance

[SnOwFeSt]

Hi, I'll be heading up ben nevis a week on saturday. Could anyone who has been up there recently let me know the chances that I will see some snow up there? I know it snowed there last weekend, but I imagine this will have melted away by next weekend. Are there still quite a few patches from winter left in this area? Thanks.

[firefly]

Oh, you'll see snow alright!

Here's one from a couple of days ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dooj/36097770...57619482688068/

Still in excess of 1500ft of unbroken snow on the north face!

[firefly]

...and some impressive summit cornices!

[SnOwFeSt]

Wow, that looks fantastic - can't wait! Thanks

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...and some impressive summit cornices!

Amazing!

How much snow does somewhere like the summit of Ben Nevis receive each snow season?

[firefly]

Amazing!

How much snow does somewhere like the summit of Ben Nevis receive each snow season?

The summit depth, typically, reaches its greatest depth in April, and has been as late as May in some colder years. Three metres or more of depth is standard. Of course, the summit area doesn't get anything like as much snow as the gullies on the north-east face, due to the snow blowing off the summit and settling below, so the actual depth on the top isn't an accurate reflection of how much snow has actually fallen.

As for how deep the snow can actually be in the gullies of Ben Nevis, it's a bit of an estimate. My own view is that Observatory Gully can exceed 20m in depth in some years. Consider this picture of myself at Observatory Gully on the 23rd August 2008. Despite the warm and wet summer, the snow was still 9-10m deep.

When you look at the snow-pack in this condition, you can see the layers of snowfall in much the same way you can see the rings of a tree. Some layers are thin, indicating a minor snowfall, whilst some are feet deep, indicating a major fall. They are normally separated by a layer of dirt, making it easier to observe. Also, remember at that altitude (3700 ft), much of the precipitation is likely to fall as snow from around October (sometimes earlier) to May, fully 7 months of accumulation. That's a lot of snow!

[firefly]

Thanks to Stuart Gordon for the attached picture which was taken yesterday at the Feith Buidhe slabs on Ben Macdui. Now that’s some impressive depth!

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Crikey, that's a lot of snow in the gullies!

[firefly]

Yes indeed, ladies and gentlemen, just when you were getting out the sun cream for a hopefully balmy summer, hardy Scots are polishing up their skis and snowboards and heading to the Cairn Gorms for one last slide on the remaining snow. This year it's the Ciste Mhearad, a long-lying patch on the north-east shoulder of Cairngorm at an altitude of around 3500-ft.

There will be queer looks on the faces of the tourists on the funicular when they see people loaded with ski-ing equipment on a warm summer's day!

http://www.winterhighland.info/pix/pixalbum.php?pix_id=550

[Norrance]

Did go up to Loch Tay on Saturday but too cloudy to see the hills properly. Surprised to see a report on Winter Highland that there were no patches left on the Lawers range as there were several in sight the previous weekend. The reporter had been climbing the Ptarmigans so maybe did not see the ENE side of Lawers, An Stuc, Meall Garbh etc.

Maybe it has all gone but I don't know. Will find out this weekend.

[Methuselah]

Fantastic pics there, guys...Enjoy your weekend. :lol:

[Norrance]

Definately nothing visible from low ground now in the Lawers area. Gone much earlier this year than last.

Nor.

[firefly]

Thanks, Norrance. When you say visible from low level, I assume you didn't see Beinn Heasgarnich? That will, for sure, have snow on it. Ben More at Crianlarich will also have snow on it, but there has been a big loss in the last week due to warm rain and wind.

A video from yesterday of a few of the guys ski-ing on Cairngorm!:

[Norrance]

Thanks, Norrance. When you say visible from low level, I assume you didn't see Beinn Heasgarnich? That will, for sure, have snow on it. Ben More at Crianlarich will also have snow on it, but there has been a big loss in the last week due to warm rain and wind.

A video from yesterday of a few of the guys ski-ing on Cairngorm!:

No, I could not see Beinn Heasgarnich but Ben More still had visible snow last week.

Nor.

[KenC]

Ben More's snow must be gone by now surely, can anyone confirm???

There was still a snow patch on Ben More last Wednesday (24th). Visible from the A82 north of Crianlarich.

[firefly]

Ben More's snow is still there.

It will certainly be melting fast in this heat, but I would expect it to last until into the first week of July. I'm hoping to get a look at it in person in a few days' time from below. Judging from this photograph from the 25th June, the snow looks about 50m long. It will have shrunk rapidly over the last few days, being exposed to the sunlight for long periods, and the fact that it isn't too deep. It is, without doubt, the most southerly snow in Britain. The nearby snows of Ben Lui and Ben Lawers will almost certainly now have vanished. I have uploaded them, and the first one shows Ben Lawers on the 21st June, and Ben Lui on the 25th June.

When Ben More's snow goes, the most southerly snow in Britain will almost certainly be Beinn Heasgarnich, above Glen Lochay. That persisted until late July in 2008, and I would expect that not to last past the 2nd week in July this year. When that goes, it becomes more difficult to say which will be the most southerly. My best guess is the Glencoe hills, although Beinn Heasgarnich lasted about the same as these patches last year.

I'm doing a snow survey with Dr Adam Watson on the 1st July at Glenshee, where we hope to see a lot of the Cairngorms snow, and hopefully a wee bit at Glas Maol.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I saw the latest Weather article on snow patch survival in 2008- very interesting. I saw the term "south-easterly hairdryer" mentioned within the article as well! I thought the hairdryer was more a reference to the mild damp tropical maritime SW'ly that can wash snow away from the highest levels even in winter.

I'm interested to see whether more patches are likely to survive this year than last year, though I have a hunch that we'll be looking at a lower figure, perhaps 5 to 8 patches, because I don't think last winter had as many snowfalls from westerly and south-westerly winds as 2007/08 did.

[firefly]

The term “hair-drier” used refers specifically to the dry, warm winds from the south-east in the summer. I take your point that the term is used generically to describe all warm winds that strip snow, but in this context we used it to describe a specific type of wind.

As for survivals this year, it’s absolutely way too early to guess. What I would say, though, is that the cover isn’t as good as it was this time in 2008, but slightly better than 2007. However, 2007’s summer wasn’t as warm as last year’s, so the snow survival was broadly the same.

Adam and I will be surveying from Glenshee tomorrow, so will be able to give a better impression in a couple of days.

[NorthernRab]

There are still snow patches on the Cairngorms surrounding Aviemore, I was there yesterday. The mountains beside Loch an Eilean also had snow - it was great, 25'C heat, no wind, great water.