Does The Uk Government Take Weather Seriously?

[CardiffStorm]

I've been into weather for a long time now but I have just recently got into tracking/chasing/photographing weather here in the UK. When looking on the internet a few months ago for reliable radar, warnings etc I was shocked to find that the Met Office updates their radar only every 30 minutes and never talk of tornados and other severe weather that we do actually get in the UK. I was also surprised that organisations such as TORRO that do amazing work get no government funding.

The governments lack of interest in severe weather has been seen in the last few years especially with flooding.

When comparing the UK with the USA it seems blatently obvious that the UK government simply does not care.

Just wanted to know if anybody else has an opinion on this.

[J10]

The Met Office provides updates on the radar every 5 minutes, to commercial customers.

To be honest as well I thought the US Government didn't give one hoot about New Orleans.

[Methuselah]

If the Government started making pronouncements on matters meteorological, peeps would accuse it of neglecting the economy?

[NL]

To be quite honest the UK should not be compared to the US as their severe weather shrinks ours

into insignificance from their enormous supercells, EF5 tornadoes, huge 'grapefruit' hail to biblical amounts

of rain and not forgetting unbearable heat, oh the snows, freezing rain and ice storms go without saying..!!!

As far as the government giving funding i'm all for... but more imput to the NHS would be monies worth spent

sorting out the economy jobs for all the list is endless....

Anyways warnings to the public often go unheeded both here and especially in the US (even free weather radios are available but many still choose not to have one..!! ) and when forecasts go wrong and severe weather does not occur then more people take less notice

in the future...Not everybody are complete weather nuts like us..!

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

And it was only the other day I was reading a post complaining about how the government was giving out health warnings due to the heat.

Sorry, but a case of 'damned if they do, and damned if they dont'.

[sammie]

I do feel as if the heat warning was needed, from a biological point of view it is not the heat that is the real killer, it’s the difference form the normal that matters as your body is acclimatised to deal with your normal heat climate. When you get those sort of temperatures at night and day here it becomes a real problem to older people and young people as their bodies are not as good at keeping homeostatic equalities level.

However in all honesty we do not need the level of weather forecasting as the USA does, we do not have such extreme weather events and in comparison we have a pretty calm climate even though it doesn’t seem like it. The high res Doppler radar they have is not needed here, as is the complexity and technical level of public forecasting they have. In all honesty we get what we need to know, the MetO I think are put under far too much scrutiny and pressure. They get forecasts right a lot of the time and as we all know it’s a hard thing to do to predict the future and they do dish out warnings but you have to look at the warning system they use. I don’t think people take head of the colour system, when was the last time they had a flash red warning? I can’t remember seeing it more than once in the last year and a bit.

As for tornadoes, well we very rarely get any that could be considered any way ‘major’ tornadoes, the threat for the mass is just not there as compared to the European Windstorms that come though every year. Which IMO are very well forecaste, well warned and good advice for their arrival is given by forecasters.

The MetO do an amazing job at something that is very hard indeed. As far as government funding goes, we’ll at the moment its not going to change, were in the middle of a recession and money is tight for every one thre are more important things than funding storm research labs for a country that does not experience very many severe storms in all honesty.

[NL]

The high res Doppler radar they have is not needed

The new radar at High Moorsley near Sunderland is already kitted out for Hi-res doppler and allegedly the rest of

the country is all to be updated in the near future.

[chrisbell-nottheweatherman]

As an interested layman, I tend to feel the MetO does a pretty good job, though I was annoyed when they closed the Norwich Office and started doing our forecasts from Birmingham. Luckily, the BBC Look East forecast comes from WeatherQuest, and, I think, seems more accurate at a local level than the national forecast.

[Phil UK]

More a case of does the government take ANYTHING seriously these days if it's not in their own vested interests?

I've seen the METO criticisms on here yesterday and although in a sense justified, they can't be seen to be too over-cautious where it comes to weather alerts, but in the same vein, they will get pilloried for not being cautious.

Thunderstorms, just like snow are probably the most difficult types of weather to predict. An example being yesterday. The CF got stuck when it should have moved across the UK at a more rapid rate. (As they'd assumed!) Although if you live in the SE, that was probably a good thing after the fireworks during the small hours of ths morning.

Snow can be just as bad to forecast, probably even worse. Some look cast iron to get some, get nothing while others expect none and get a major dumping. I'll mention 1st February this year as a prime example, especially London in particular.

In a nutshell, it's a case of 'damned if they do and damned if they don't'.

Phil.

[Essan]

If the Government started making pronouncements on matters meteorological, peeps would accuse it of neglecting the economy?

If the Government started making pronouncements on matters meteorological they'd have spent the last week warning us of hurricanes and how to cope in sub zero temperatures :o

[J10]

More a case of does the government take ANYTHING seriously these days if it's not in their own vested interests?

Always been thus with all Governments.

[Harry]

s I said in the last few months, the MetO can issue what they like, the British public do not take the blindest bit of notice, in fact act so outrageously dim at times it defies belief!

A couple, albeit tragic examples:

1. 16 year old lad gets tragically killed a week ago today after being struck by lightning, 5 of his mates quite badly injured...where were they standing...under a tree?!?!?! One of the most basic rules of severe weather which is so well known it's hardly found in books anymore.

2. Army draughted out to people in the SW because of being stranded in snow across moors - despite severe warnings being announced hours, even days in advanced!!

This proves, that no matter what the MetO forecasts, no matter what warnings they put out, the British public always know best and some, will put themselves and others in danger regardless!

[Methuselah]

Good point Harry. There was a case of a woman stranded up Cairngorm in a blizzard a few years' back: she had flagrantly ignored all the advice given over the previous week...

You cannot legislate against stupidity!

[J07]

We probably don't get a full appreciation of everything the MetO does anyway. I would say the hardest meteorological phenomena to predict is Fog. Yet it's comparitively "boring". It's most important to aviation, and to be honest how often do we check TAFs to see how well they are doing? It's not "glamour weather" and so it's ignored relative to things like storms and heavy rain.

[chrisbell-nottheweatherman]

Very true - even to a more basic and much less dangerous level. During my time as an Undergraduate I saw more people getting soaked during cold winter downpours without any waterproof clothing than I had seen before or have seen since. Another memory is seeing a female student skidding along a walkway covered in hard-packed, icy snow in stilettos (and this was in the midle of the day, too, so no excuses about being ready togo clubbing or something).

On a more serious level, I recall hearing a year or two ago about a posh girls' school that sent some of its pupils up a tall mountain somewhere in uniform, trainers and with bin-liners for waterproof protection.

[Methuselah]

We probably don't get a full appreciation of everything the MetO does anyway. I would say the hardest meteorological phenomena to predict is Fog. Yet it's comparitively "boring". It's most important to aviation, and to be honest how often do we check TAFs to see how well they are doing? It's not "glamour weather" and so it's ignored relative to things like storms and heavy rain.

That's very true, J07...But, even when thick fog is actually 'there', too many drivers keep their lights off!

I think they think that they're preserving their batteries.

[johnholmes]

this gives the basic plan that UK Met has on behalf of the government guidelines laid down in the Annual Report if anyone wants to read that

The weather can impact on your everyday life in many ways - from what to wear to whether to travel. The links on this page are aimed at helping you plan your day, whatever the weather.

The Met Office has responsibility for providing weather warnings.

For any impacts caused by the weather please refer to the links on this page.

There are a number of other agencies involved in dealing with the impacts of severe weather. They are listed on this page.

the link to their site for a further read is below

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about/website/links.html

the issue of forecasts and warnings is under this link

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pws/index.html

on the link below are the publications from UK Met, including if you dig enough their annual report

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/publications/index.html

it also shows on that page a link to the framework document

part of the Introduction by the relevant Minister had this to say

The work of the Met Office touches all our lives. Its forecasts guide our everyday decision-making, and are crucial in protecting the public against the effects of severe weather. In addition, it delivers essential services to Defence and other parts of government, and also to a wide range of external customers. It leads the world in the science of weather-forecasting and climate-change, and plays a key role in helping determine the national, and indeed the international, response to global warming.

This Framework Document is a development of that published when the Met Office became a Trading Fund in 1996. It explains the Met Office’s purpose, vision, and role, and the policy and other parameters within which it operates. It sets out the Office’s top-level objectives, and the governance arrangements established to ensure successful delivery.

The Met Office is a vital and a vibrant national institution, which is respected around the world. Its staff can take great pride in its achievements and capabilities, and it is a privilege for me to be its Ministerial Owner.

[Phil UK]

John Holmes : "Its forecasts guide our everyday decision-making,"

John, with all due respect, I'd rather take my own decisions. For example. If I see fat Cumulus, superceded by Altocumulus building early morning, as is the case today. I can expect a shower or thunderstorm somewhere nearby or even overhead. (15th June) sometime later on today.

I've been a weather enthusiast for many years but I know what to look out for. I'm not claiming that the METO can get it right 100% But there should be some rather than be over complacent forecasts sometimes. As said in a previous post, storms and snow are the most difficult to predict where and when.

My own personal forecast for today alone suggest heavy showers. Parts of Ireland are already getting a battering at the moment with heavy rain. As said, I can see some heavy showers et al developing around 4-7pm inland, and if I'm wrong... I'll eat my socks.

Now would you and Neil F agree with that? (Not the edible socks bit either!) :lol:

Phil.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Phil UK

[johnholmes]

to Phil

the apparent comment that you quote, for anyone reading this, is NOT by me but Phil using my name and a quote from the Minister!

as to your ability to do your own forecasts-fine-no problem-

my post is simply allowing people to read what the Met O guidelines for services to the public and relevant emergency organisations are as laid down by Parliamentary statute.

as to what is the most difficult then yes, as a professional forecaster, snow and fog have always, in my view, and will continue to be the most difficult to predict accurately for amount/intensity/and place of occurrence.

As to the warning situation then being able to issue them sufficiently far ahead as to have safety and practical use is the obvious priority as is getting the balance right, as per the operational instructions in front of the senior man. then the ability to make the correct decision as to when to warn and when not to. That is always, no matter how much computing power is available, going to be the most difficult. To some extent, the increasing lack of quality surface observations is making this more difficult with time as economies force further cut backs in human input. A lot of it can and is replaced by automatic data, radar is one obvious item, but its not the full answer.

Edited July 4, 2009 by johnholmes

[Phil UK]

But John, you mentioned it. Just wanted to quote that bit in case someone beat me to the reply.

I completely understand what you've said otherwise. :lol: But parlimentary state. It's in a state alright. :lol:

Phil.

[Methuselah]

With all due respect to you, Phil - I have also been a weather enthusiast for as long as I can recall...But, I don't think that the MetO's advice is really meant for the likes of me and thee??

Not everyone is a weatherak like us... :lol: :lol:

[Phil UK]

Only in Winter, Pete. Snow doesn't always work for us down south then. (1st-7th Feb 2009 excluded!) But then we don't have the NW snow shower blasts as well as you do. And you can also have Andy Murray back. :lol: :lol:

Phil.

[tornadica]

I can see the argument from both sides of the coin, Yes we dont get the weather on the same scale of severity as maybe the US and Australia and therefore at this moment in time we dont require the services that those countries provide the Public.

Perhaps with the increase of severe weather there might be a review of this. One thing i have always felt that the UK does need is an EAS system like the US, obviously for not only use with weather related events but other general civil emergencies as well. I have always had the understanding that its better to be a little over prepared than not enough and it should take a major event to suddenly but the cat amongst the pigeons. Suppose only time will tell

[johnholmes]

EAS system ?

explain please not just for me but I would imagine others as weel

I find it always best to use acronyms and abbreviations as little as possible, that way we all understand what is being said.

that or an index with all those I use clearly available.

many thanks

Edited July 4, 2009 by johnholmes

[Methuselah]

Only in Winter, Pete. Snow doesn't always work for us down south then. (1st-7th Feb 2009 excluded!) But then we don't have the NW snow shower blasts as well as you do. And you can also have Andy Murray back. :lol:

Phil.

Here neither, mate!