CRU E-mails and data

[Solar Cycles]

Very glad to hear it, SC. Presumably therefore we will not hear from you in the future when all you have to offer is insults, both to him and to those of us with 'buried heads'. Your more thoughtful, less provocative posts will continue to be welcome as always.

EDIT: Sorry, I see that Pete's already commented in much the same way.

It beggars belief, how some insist that the hockey stick is anything other than spoof science, hence the heads buried in sand comment!

This as been discussed many times, I see no point in going round in circles!

[Methuselah]

It looks (to me) as if that was the whole idea behind the hack...Until the investigation has taken place, there can be a media-frenzy in the run-up to the Copenhagen Conference; and a free-for-all concerning pre-emptive unsubstantiated claims/chatter???

Anyhow, interesting times lay ahead!

[jethro]

OK, sorry, my apologies, I missed the if's but in the first sentence I don't see one. There is no evidence Dr Jones hasn't conducted himself in a professional manner, just allegation and misinterpreted personal emails.

Edit: actually Jethro, you also said "At the very least Jones should be reprimanded for blocking the release of data" again, this is not proven, or shown but just an allegation, besides some of the data isn't his to make public.

I stand by that viewpoint Dev, he should be reprimanded. The situation regarding sharing of data has little to do with the hacking of those emails, yes the subject is mentioned but this part has been a long running and well documented saga. As VP rightly said, it could have been sorted via licensing agreements if there was an issue with commercial rights.

Thinking about your allegation/unsubstantiated accusations viewpoint, I feel I have to pick you up on your first post today:

"It most certainly is not good that a scientist is forced to stand aside because extreme AGW sceptics (who after persistently harassing and telling lies about him for years - like kids who bait teachers, they just wont stop) have now stolen his private correspondences, mischievously misinterpreted what he said and then are now baying for his scientific life."

There is absolutely no evidence that the hacker was a sceptic - extreme or otherwise; that's purely a personal interpretation. I imagine there is just as much chance that it was a pro AGW person who did the hacking. Reports thus far indicate it was likely to have been someone inside CRU, not an outsider at all.

There's every chance that a dedicated scientist felt (rightly or wrongly) that the scientific method wasn't being adhered to, that people were playing fast and lose with the peer review process and they wanted to blow the whistle before their profession was brought into disrepute. How many of us object to our professions being tarnished by the behaviour of a few? I know I do. A few years ago our TV screens were awash with images of a certain lady gardener more famous for her lack of underwear than her horticultural talents, having long hair prone to turning into a wild mop in the rain, I fiercely objected when comparisons were made. Roo has been very scathing on numerous occasions about Time Team for the same reasons. Professional pride is very common.

[Devonian]

I stand by that viewpoint Dev, he should be reprimanded. The situation regarding sharing of data has little to do with the hacking of those emails, yes the subject is mentioned but this part has been a long running and well documented saga. As VP rightly said, it could have been sorted via licensing agreements if there was an issue with commercial rights.

It's not Dr Jones's fault - it's not his to releaase.

Thinking about your allegation/unsubstantiated accusations viewpoint, I feel I have to pick you up on your first post today:

"It most certainly is not good that a scientist is forced to stand aside because extreme AGW sceptics (who after persistently harassing and telling lies about him for years - like kids who bait teachers, they just wont stop) have now stolen his private correspondences, mischievously misinterpreted what he said and then are now baying for his scientific life."

There is absolutely no evidence that the hacker was a sceptic - extreme or otherwise; that's purely a personal interpretation. I imagine there is just as much chance that it was a pro AGW person who did the hacking. Reports thus far indicate it was likely to have been someone inside CRU, not an outsider at all.

Yup, we don't know who did it. So, I should have said '...have used stolen private correspondences...'

There's every chance that a dedicated scientist felt (rightly or wrongly) that the scientific method wasn't being adhered to, that people were playing fast and lose with the peer review process and they wanted to blow the whistle before their profession was brought into disrepute. How many of us object to our professions being tarnished by the behaviour of a few? I know I do. A few years ago our TV screens were awash with images of a certain lady gardener more famous for her lack of underwear than her horticultural talents, having long hair prone to turning into a wild mop in the rain, I fiercely objected when comparisons were made. Roo has been very scathing on numerous occasions about Time Team for the same reasons. Professional pride is very common.

I think that it's a 'There's every chance that if a dedicated scientist...' actually

Edited December 2, 2009 by Devonian

[jethro]

It's not Dr Jones's fault - it's not his to releaase.

Yup, we don't know who did it. So, I should have said '...have used stolen private correspondences...'

I think that it's a 'There's every chance that if a dedicated scientist...' actually

So why were requests made to him? Surely if he didn't have the final say, the requests should have been referred to whoever did have control?

No, you shouldn't have assumed it was the work of a rabid, extreme AGW denier. Unsubstantiated accusation.

No it shouldn't be "if" - it was a speculative sentence used in a speculative paragraph.

[PersianPaladin]

People that think a few words in a few stolen emails confirm there is a massive world wide scientific conspiracy (fraud) going on involving thousands of scientists? I'm afraid it puts them on a par with 9/11 conspiracy theorists and those who think we didn't land men on the Moon.

Don't mix up the victims' families who were involved with the Commision (and who demand a new, independent investigation, accountability and exposure of the cover-up) with the sensationalist Alex-Jones people.

[Methuselah]

The first question I always ask myself whenever one of these 'scandals' arises is: who benefits?

[PersianPaladin]

The first question I always ask myself whenever one of these 'scandals' arises is: who benefits?

Thats always a good question.

[La Bise]

No action on climate change will benefit many people, most of whom will be dead when the proverbial will hit the fans and their grand-children. Short-term benefit rules!

[noggin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232722/Professor-climate-change-scandal-helps-police-enquiries-researchers-banned.html

The police are involved now.

[DAVID SNOW]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232722/Professor-climate-change-scandal-helps-police-enquiries-researchers-banned.html

The police are involved now.

Great band

Great songs

Are they the hackers?

[SteveB]

The main BBC news mentioned the leaked E-mail scandal, Apparently Dubai are not happy & it could have ramifications at the Copenhagen summit.

Edited December 3, 2009 by SteveB

[rob48]

This is a disturbing trend, destroying data/evidence:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5582321/postnormal-science.thtml

It has eerie connotations with the behaviour of fascist dictators burning libraries (oh and the mysterious disappearance of all of Anthony Blair's expenses claims).

[Devonian]

This is a disturbing trend, destroying data/evidence:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5582321/postnormal-science.thtml

It has eerie connotations with the behaviour of fascist dictators burning libraries (oh and the mysterious disappearance of all of Anthony Blair's expenses claims).

Oh dear, getting close to a Goodwin now...

[Solar Cycles]

This is a disturbing trend, destroying data/evidence:

http://www.spectator...l-science.thtml

It has eerie connotations with the behaviour of fascist dictators burning libraries (oh and the mysterious disappearance of all of Anthony Blair's expenses claims).

Come off it Rob, are you really surprised?

Climate scientists have been fudging data from the start, their whole theory is based on manipulation and lies. What the public wants to know, will justice be served, and all those involved with the century's biggest crime ( manipulation, lies, and e-mails ), be stripped off all funding, and kindly shown the door!

!

[Methuselah]

Is any of that substantiated, Solar - or is it simply yet more hearsay??

[Solar Cycles]

Is any of that substantiated, Solar - or is it simply yet more hearsay??

Just 3 words Pete, Biffin, Mann, and Hansen!

[Methuselah]

Just 3 words Pete, Biffin, Mann, and Hansen!

In other words: probably not, then: as even the largest list of ad homs doesn't sum-up to the smallest amount of evidence...

[Solar Cycles]

In other words: probably not, then: as even the largest list of ad homs doesn't sum-up to the smallest amount of evidence...

Not really Pete, all three have been involved in manipulation of data. And all of this has been well documented, as you know!

[Methuselah]

Not really Pete, all three have been involved in manipulation of data. And all of this has been well documented, as you know!

Well, it's has certainly been claimed...Personally, I don't like cherry-picking much, either. Which is why I find the climate deniers to be every bit as bad...'Tis why I'm a sceptic, and neither a believer nor a denier...

[SteveB]

More concerns raised about the leaked E-mails.

The UN to investigate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8394483.stm

[Dartmoor_Matt]

Sky News was reporting that the UN Climate Change committee are going to start investigating the possible data manipulation.

[Solar Cycles]

Well, it's has certainly been claimed...Personally, I don't like cherry-picking much, either. Which is why I find the climate deniers to be every bit as bad...'Tis why I'm a sceptic, and neither a believer nor a denier...

Well I've stated many times, that I believe Co2 has played a small part in our previous warming Pete. It's the manipulation and fabrication of data, which really does science no favours. And that's the reason why the general public are so scathing!

[Methuselah]

Sky News was reporting that the UN Climate Change committee are going to start investigating the possible data manipulation.

IMO, any suspicion of deliberate misrepresentation of data should be thoroughly investigated...

Well I've stated many times, that I believe Co2 has played a small part in our previous warming Pete. It's the manipulation and fabrication of data, which really does science no favours. And that's the reason why the general public are so scathing!

Which is the very thing that has yet to be proved...And, would this be the same 'general public' that once took to stoning the house of a paediatrician???

[Dartmoor_Matt]

IMO, any suspicion of deliberate misrepresentation of data should be thoroughly investigated...

I agree entirely, and it's good that they are going ahead with it despite the reassurances from Phil Jones and others.