Have You Noticed The Reduction In Daylight Hours Yet ?

[wizard.muh]

If we went to CET time when would we put the clocks back ? if we were on CET time right now it would still be dark at 8 30 in the morning, maybe we could be on CET time from march to september but then what do we do go back to BST or GMT, im afraid CET could never work in this country but i can see us staying on BST at some point

Also no point in having CET this country don't do things late in the evening like they do on the continent, when do you see football games starting at 9 or 10 pm here, in spain they eat at about 9pm, what is the point of it being light till 11pm no one goes anywhere at that time, most are sitting inside watching tele or going to bed

You are right, it would be a bit of a mare on how the clocks would move. Its just the benefit from April till Sep would be emense. My suggestion at the expense of wasting feb [as we do] would be to wait till late march and go the full two hours forward in one go and have a national British day bank holiday monday to cusion the blow for the loss of bed time. However we would need to claw an hour back before now. Maybe end of aug/school term. Messy but worth it I think.

Edited October 24, 2012 by wizard.muh

[Snowy Easterlies]

yeah i suppose its good to come up with different ideas,

i think the clocks should go forward to BST at the start of march, rather than the end, but if we were to go to CET then we would have to wait till the end of march as the mornings would still be dark in early march on CET, then the clocks would have to go back end of september, the national holiday sounds good but i can't see that happening,

plus your right this debate does come up every year, but lets be honest we adjust quite quickly to the change and we soon get used to the dark, of course though their is the health and safety aspect of it, which is the main problem but there was a trial in the 60s in which we stayed on BST and not many liked it, so for the foreseeable i can't see anything changing

Edited October 24, 2012 by Snowy Easterlies

[Essan]

there was a trial in the 60s in which we stayed on BST and not many liked it, so for the foreseeable i can't see anything changing

Portugal tried it more recently, and liked it even less. Apparently one of the problems was that mothers of young children found it difficult getting them to go to bed hours before sunset and up for school hours before sunrise ......

[Bottesford]

Spain seems to work on it fine... I was in Barcelona this June (and Santander a previous June) and it got dark around 9:30pm so fairly similar to here. It got light at 0630 however. Seemed a wise use of daylight to me with long evenings despite being further south. They are on CET.

[Snowy Easterlies]

in north west spain sunrise is currently at 9 am, do they moan about the dark mornings ?

[Bumpkin]

Portugal tried it more recently, and liked it even less. Apparently one of the problems was that mothers of young children found it difficult getting them to go to bed hours before sunset and up for school hours before sunrise ......

I'd imagine its even worse with teenagers

[Bottesford]

By December with sunrise around 0815 I'm at work anyway so it'd be no bother having to wait till 0915 for sunrise. Actually it'd be miserable but then so is the sun dropping at 1545. In fact I find it feels worse as you're tired at the end of the day. Since I face directly south at work I get ample sunshine in the day for it then to turn pitch black - the contrast really takes a hit on your working ability with headaches and general 'its time to go to home/sleep now' thing going on for that last hour or so of the day.

[laserguy]

.... the contrast really takes a hit on your working ability with headaches and general 'its time to go to home/sleep now' thing going on for that last hour or so of the day.

I bet you'd love doing a permanent night shift in winter, Botte'! It's what I try to arrange and in a cloudy period in midwinter I can avoid seeing the sun for weeks on end,if I play my cards right. Marvellous! Anyways, anyone who hasn't noticed the reduction in daylight hours by now must be living in Australia or summat......

[Coast]

the contrast really takes a hit on your working ability with headaches and general 'its time to go to home/sleep now' thing going on for that last hour or so of the day.

I know exactly what you mean Bottie, but try getting out of the house at 6.30 am and not getting back out of work until at least 6.30 pm, it really drains in these dark days.

[Methuselah]

But none of the objections to keeping to BST, throughout the year, addresses the question: what use is one measly hour of additional sunlight, on winter mornings?

[laserguy]

Ye well, can't wait 'til Sunday when we lose a full hour of daylight in one hit, instead of a piddling coupla minutes a day. My favourite time of year between now and Dec 21/22. Don't really want to think about that right now. With any luck and a prevailing wind those Mayans will be right - the increasing daylight from then on feels like the end of the world anyway.

[Keraunic]

I hate it in the run up to Xmas when it's getting dark at 3:30/4pm. It's like being buried alive when curtains are drawn so bloomin early. I like it in January when it's just gradually beginning to get a bit lighter. That's why I like snow then as it brightens the days.

[Bottesford]

Ye well, can't wait 'til Sunday when we lose a full hour of daylight in one hit, instead of a piddling coupla minutes a day.

You don't loose any light - its just thrown onto the mornings instead!

I'm still to hear a good reason to go to GMT...

[Essan]

But none of the objections to keeping to BST, throughout the year, addresses the question: what use is one measly hour of additional sunlight, on winter mornings?

Surely, since you're the one proposing a change, the onus is on you to prove that it's better to be darker longer in the mornings and still dark when we all get home from work

And anyway, the question remains: why don't all other nations on the same latitude as us also want to shift one time zone east? Maybe eveyone else in the world accepts the Earth is round and the sun rises and sets and do we really need to be able to play tennis outside at 11pm?

Edited October 25, 2012 by Essan

[Methuselah]

You don't loose any light - its just thrown onto the mornings instead!

I'm still to hear a good reason to go to GMT...

Me too!

[Essan]

You don't loose any light - its just thrown onto the mornings instead!

I'm still to hear a good reason to go to GMT...

Er, because we're on GMT? And have been since clocks were invented. And because other countries manage to survive living on their normal timezone?

You want to buck the trend and change, then convince us it's a good idea.

[Methuselah]

Surely, since you're the one proposing a change, the onus is on you to prove that it's better to be darker longer in the mornings and still dark when we all get home from work

And anyway, the question remains: why don't all other nations on the same latitude as us also want to shift one time zone east? Maybe eveyone else in the world accepts the Earth is round and the sun rises and sets and do we really need to be able to play tennis outside at 11pm?

Could be? But, since all I'm advocating is doing away with all the clock-changing malarkey, altogether - maybe not?...

Er, because we're on GMT? And have been since clocks were invented. And because other countries manage to survive living on their normal timezone?

You want to buck the trend and change, then convince us it's a good idea.

No we're not. We're on GMT+1 for more than half the year...

[Essan]

Could be? But, since all I'm advocating is doing away with all the clock-changing malarkey, altogether - maybe not?...

I'm happy to do away with it, summer time does seem silly in this day and age. Though I suppose most other countries use it so it'd be a bit odd if we didn't?

No we're not. We're on GMT+1 for more than half the year...

No, we're on GMT - or rather Zulu Time - all year. It's just that your clocks are wrong for over half the year. Hence why the fax charts are an hour out etc in the summer

[Bottesford]

Er, because we're on GMT? And have been since clocks were invented. And because other countries manage to survive living on their normal timezone?

You want to buck the trend and change, then convince us it's a good idea.

Thought I already had but shall summarise:

- More people are awake doing things in the afternoon/evenings than in the mornings so this leads to:

- Safer journeys.

- Lower energy use.

- People seem to prefer finishing work in daylight as it makes it seem like there's some day left.

- Most people leave for work in darkness anyway so why not put more of this darkness into the working day giving some light once you finish.

Interesting timezone diagram - just look how many countries in the mid to high latitudes especially are a on a timezone one further east (skewing towards evening daylight). Russia, Belarus, Iceland, parts of Greenland, The Azores, Portugal, France, Spain, Kazakhstan, Alaska... And then look at the UK - sticking right out to the west of our own official timezone skewing us a little towards morning light.

Does that convince you?

[Downburst]

I can acccept GMT if and only if they'd change to Summer time earlier than end of March. Why change end of October and then wait an extra month on the other side. the Americans under G W Bush tightened this up a few years back. Changing first weekend of March would save energy and lighten the mood a bit.

[Methuselah]

I can acccept GMT if and only if they'd change to Summer time earlier than end of March. Why change end of October and then wait an extra month on the other side. the Americans under G W Bush tightened this up a few years back. Changing first weekend of March would save energy and lighten the mood a bit.

Not a bad idea at all, that...One month's less misery?

Or bliss, in barrie's case!

[Coast]

I can acccept GMT if and only if they'd change to Summer time earlier than end of March.

Why couldn't we change the clocks on Sunday and then just leave them there?

[Essan]

Most people find it easier to rise for work or school if it's light rather than dark.

People - especially children - do not naturally wake properly whilst it is still dark in the morning. A bright sunny morning makes people more positive and energetic at the start of the day.

Children would be safer walking to and from school in daylight, rather than walking home in daylight but to school in the dark.

Dawn is the generally the coldest part of the day. Getting up an hour earlier in winter means more people up and about when it's at its coldest, instead of in a warm bed.

In Germany the sun rises and sets the same times as it does in England (allowing for time zone difference) and yet no-one complains. Maybe they have gotten used to it having lived there for several thousand years?

I do think we should switch back to GMT at the end of September though, so that the effect is less noticeable. I'm sure it's only because we leave it so late that we getting all this whining and whinging every year!

[Essan]

Why couldn't we change the clocks on Sunday and then just leave them there?

I never change mine in the Spring anyway - not that I have many (computer does change automatically though, which is a pain) Never saw the point in having a clock that's an hour out!

[Bottesford]

Most people find it easier to rise for work or school if it's light rather than dark.

People - especially children - do not naturally wake properly whilst it is still dark in the morning. A bright sunny morning makes people more positive and energetic at the start of the day.

Absolutely true. Its horrible trying to get up in darkness. But despite the clock move that problem returns in a matter of a couple of weeks later anyway so little is gained.

Dawn is the generally the coldest part of the day. Getting up an hour earlier in winter means more people up and about when it's at its coldest, instead of in a warm bed.

For me that would simply move the coldest time of day to when I got up instead of when I left the house but since the difference is so small with the low solar input its not worth considering.

In Germany the sun rises and sets the same times as it does in England (allowing for time zone difference) and yet no-one complains. Maybe they have gotten used to it having lived there for several thousand years?

I know no Germans so not sure on their opinion. However Germany is only one counter example to the many I provided above so....

I do think we should switch back to GMT at the end of September though, so that the effect is less noticeable. I'm sure it's only because we leave it so late that we getting all this whining and whinging every year!

Yes it'd soften the blow but would make winter seem longer and of course increased energy use/decreased safety as per what I said before - more people are awake 5pm-6pm than 6am-7am (the time periods concerned when making the change a month earlier).

I'd vouch for a return to BST in late Feb for definite - if we must stick to this moving system.