The Helm Wind

[Osbourne One-Nil]

As everyone embarking on the mid to late 40s dreams of, I've had to move in with my Dad for a while as he recovers from illness. He lives in a village that lies at the foot of the Pennines in Cumbria and is prone to the Helm Wind; apparently the only named wind in the UK. He's lived in the house for years, and while I know it can get windy there, I've never really experienced what the Helm Wind can do. Here area a few videos to give you an idea....

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2Pe8FFCLcWp3Dg7o2

Bear in mind that it can be almost dead calm just 3 or 4 miles away. 

I hate wind, but it can be quite pretty, particularly when it forms a Helm bar...a bank of cloud which breaks off and hangs over the Eden Valley. I still hate wind though. 

 

 

[Relativistic]

Very interesting post, and great photos/videos. Was that the snow from March just gone?

Edited June 1, 2018 by Relativistic

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Aye - well, the snow in the photos was from the late Feb/early March dumping and the snow in the videos was from a few weeks later. The last patch on Cross Fell disappeared only this week. 

[johnholmes]

Thanks for that OON, the snow shots are pretty amazing and remind me of being very small in the winter of 1947 on the edge of the Peak District.

Re the Helm, this link may be interesting to yourself and others

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/wind/helm-wind

or this

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305748814000474

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Thanks John... doesn't say how you stop it though. I think Cross Fell is going to have to go. 

[hillbilly]

I guess there are other areas of the country that have localised winds although not as prevalent as the Helm.In this area of the Pennines in summer we tend to get a lot of days that are fairly calm at both ends of the day but can be really quite windy on the hilltops in the afternoon,another world to the calm conditions in the valley just 3 miles down the hill.There is also a farm that I know of called 'Helm' but it is half way down the valley and I don't really recall it being a particularly windy spot.

[iand61]

1 hour ago, hillbilly said:

I guess there are other areas of the country that have localised winds although not as prevalent as the Helm.In this area of the Pennines in summer we tend to get a lot of days that are fairly calm at both ends of the day but can be really quite windy on the hilltops in the afternoon,another world to the calm conditions in the valley just 3 miles down the hill.There is also a farm that I know of called 'Helm' but it is half way down the valley and I don't really recall it being a particularly windy spot.

I live just over into Lancashire from the Todmorden end of the Calder Valley and sometimes in spring and summer we get a strong and very gusty wind from the Yorkshire side of the ridge that can last for a couple of days with little more than a leaf rustler a couple of miles away.

only last spring I had a couple of fence panels blown out on a day when wind was never mentioned in the forecast.

Edited June 2, 2018 by iand61
Spelling mistake

[mike Meehan]

Take it that it would be a Katabatic effect, see there is snow about and the air on the tops of the hills gets cooled down more, thus heavier, then it rolls down hill. 

They can be pretty vicious in the cases of where they come off the ice caps of the Arctic and Antarctic.  

[Methuselah]

8 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

Take it that it would be a Katabatic effect, see there is snow about and the air on the tops of the hills gets cooled down more, thus heavier, then it rolls down hill. 

They can be pretty vicious in the cases of where they come off the ice caps of the Arctic and Antarctic.  

Possibly, and the one that sometimes blows off the Highlands and into the North Sea, in very cold spells of  otherwise windless weather - the fresh WNW wind that'd whizz across Inverness - was baltic...cold enough to freeze the monkeys off a brass ball!

Edited June 23, 2018 by Ed Stone

[mike Meehan]

I'm getting confused now Pete - first of all there is a MAD thread I can't find, then there is a WNW wind which whizzes across from the North Sea to the Baltic.

I still remember the lecture relating to Katabatic and Anabatic winds when I was an air cadet 60 years ago - something to be aware of when coming into to land in a hilly area, or near a polar ice cap. 

Anyway monkeys don't have brass balls, except for the 'See no evil, hear no evil and say no evil' variants. The suggestion was that they were brass triangles on board the old fighting vessels used to store cannon balls but to pile them high on board a tossing ship, a lot would likely fall off anyway with the movement. Also it is suggested that there is insufficient of a coefficient of expansion between iron and brass to cause sufficient of an expansion and contraction to cause the balls to fall off. so that is another one of life's mysteries to depict it is bloody cold. 

But all is not lost apparently there is scientific evidence to say that having cooler nether regions enhances fertility, not that it will bother me too much in my dotage.

[Methuselah]

2 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

I'm getting confused now Pete - first of all there is a MAD thread I can't find, then there is a WNW wind which whizzes across from the North Sea to the Baltic.

I still remember the lecture relating to Katabatic and Anabatic winds when I was an air cadet 60 years ago - something to be aware of when coming into to land in a hilly area, or near a polar ice cap. 

Anyway monkeys don't have brass balls, except for the 'See no evil, hear no evil and say no evil' variants. The suggestion was that they were brass triangles on board the old fighting vessels used to store cannon balls but to pile them high on board a tossing ship, a lot would likely fall off anyway with the movement. Also it is suggested that there is insufficient of a coefficient of expansion between iron and brass to cause sufficient of an expansion and contraction to cause the balls to fall off. so that is another one of life's mysteries to depict it is bloody cold. 

But all is not lost apparently there is scientific evidence to say that having cooler nether regions enhances fertility, not that it will bother me too much in my dotage.

Ah...What I mean is is that, when the Highlands are covered in deep snow, there's no prevailing wind and very low inland temperatures, a 'reverse sea breeze' will blow from the land towards the sea...? I used to start work at 5 a.m. once a week, and I can tell you that that wind was baltic. 'Baltic' as in effing cold!

[mike Meehan]

My sister in law moved to Norfolk, there the cold winds normally come off the North Sea - the locals call them lazy winds - they don't go round you, they go straight through you.    

 

 

 

[Mokidugway]

The helm creates some amazing undulatus asperatus clouds I have some pics somewhere.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Mokidugway

[Chesil View]

Greatest post OON the snow shots remind me of Feb 1978 down here in Dorset. 

[Chris Smith]

Just going to leave this here...