firefly

I haven't had everyone report back yet, but I suspect there are around 25 patches left now in Scotland. The largest of these is on Ben Nevis, measured by myself yesterday as ~95m long. There are various others scattered throughout that range, all of which can be viewed (and watched on video) here. The subject of the first snows is a tricky one. The first snows are seldom the lasting snows. Late September is not unusual for the first dustings, but it can come earlier. In 1976, lasting snow in the Cairngorms came during the first week of September! This saved the remaining patches that would otherwise have melted.

Yes, the patches are certainly now countable. On the weekend of the 21st August I'm organising a Scotland-wide survey of all snow remaining on the hills. Alas, the study area will be confined to hills around Fort William (specifically, Ben Nevis, Aonach Mor & Aonach Beag) and the Cairngorms. By that time, I'm 90% sure there'll be nothing left anywhere else. There's just an outside chance that the patch visible from the A9 (as per my post previously) will be there, too. I'll have someone keep an eye on that one. I suspect there'll be fewer than 20 patches next weekend...

Er, when I zoom in on that it shows this. How on earth did you see that from the road? Have I misunderstood your message, or was the location just a general one? Can you be any more specific?

Cheggers, when you say 'Granton-Dalwhinnie', what do you mean? Are you referring to the Cairngorms? The lowest patch in Scotland just now, we think, is the one visible from the A9 on Carn na Caim. It sits around 830m at grid reference NN670 821 Photograph here, courtesy of Al Todd.

Yes, Norrance, I've heard it's still there. Amazingly late date. Very, very doubtful. Possibly a streak of quartz or water shining in sunlight.

Norrance, the snow in Glencoe this year didn't make it much past the first week in July. I haven't got the precise melt date, but if you look at the pictures on my flickr account for Glencoe 2010 you can see very small patches on the 2nd July on Meall a Bhuiridh (Glencoe ski area), and a few on the highest parts of the Bidean nam Bian range of hills. At a guess, they would have lasted until around the 8th. There is, apparently, still a wee bit left on Ben Avon and Beinn a' Bhuird, but not huge amounts. As for Lochanagar, a bit persists on Carn an t-Sagairt Beag, and should last a while yet. Nothing at Glenshee, despite a large wreath on Cairn na Claise on the 1st July. For me the most interesting snow-patch so far in 2010 has been the one on Carnedd Llewelyn in Snowdonia, Wales. We know historically this has persisted into August, but has not survived anything like as long in recent years. This year, though, it lasted until the 28th June. Astonishingly late date. Have a look at the bottom of Donald Perkins' page for some background reading. I alerted Donald to this location, and he had never even heard of it! If you want to keep bang up-to-date then follow the Winterhighland thread. If you want to know where the snow remains in Britain then it's the best place to watch!

None! The farthest south you'll see snow in Britain just now is here.

I don't, Norrance, as I don't know its precise location. However, I have been informed about it, and it's generally in this area, between Coire Beanaidh and Coire Ruadh of Braeriach. Perhaps you can place it on the map?

At the risk of sounding like a nagging old wife , any chance you could post me a link? I've got ways and means of ascertaining dates from photographs... It would be very useful indeed to know what date this was, and where it was. Ta!

A few hardy souls went skiing today (yes, on July the 29th!) at Ciste Mhearad, Cairngorm. Almost 200m in length, it should last in September quite easily. Picture from H11lly on Winterhighland. http://www.winterhig...php?2,file=6680

CatchMyDrift, can you give me a link for that? I would be astonished if that were true.

The track isn't open to vehicular traffic (at least to the public), but it is very popular with mountain bikers. Here's a picture below of the snow that's visible from the A9, taken yesterday by Olderalan from Winterhighland. It's the same patch I posted earlier, albeit from a different angle.

Thanks, Norrance. The patch in the southern Cairngorms you refer to is Glen Feshie's Ciste Mhearad (distinct from Cairn Gorm's). It faces west, and would have benefited from easterly snow fall in the winter. Survival into August is most unusual nowadays. It is well watched by Davie Duncan in Kingussie, and he's been keeping tabs on it for many a year. The Coire Cas patch still looks large and deep, and will easily last well into August. Again, most unusual in this day and age. Recently it's been lucky to last into mid-July, so this year represents a very good one for it.

Indeed so. The classic long-lying patches are in NE facing corries, which did particularly badly this winter. Westerly aspects did very well (as seen in the Dalwhinnie pictures) due to the prevalence of easterly/north-easterly wind and snow.

I'm wary of giving out depths of individual patches as I'm really not sure what they are! That said, the main one in the picture I posted from the 1st July won't be much less than around 5m: possibly up to 7.5m. That's just a guess, mind, and could be out either way. Are you correct? Partially. The first snows generally come in October, but they are seldom 'lasting'. Mostly the snows that come in October are ephemeral. That said, in 2008 lasting snow arrived at Garbh Choire Mor (Braeriach) on the 1st October, and to Aonach Mor on the 20th October (IIRC). Mostly, though, early November is a good bet for lasting snow. In 1994 (the best year in living memory for me), snow was still melting in December from the previous winter, and had it come earlier we'd have had many more survivals. This year is not going to be vintage, despite the huge volumes present in winter. Relics of it persist in large quantities on Cairn Gorm, and you can see the wreath on the Cas headwall of the ski area at Cairngorm here. Scroll down to the bottom and check out the webcam (there's also a wee bit visible on webcam 2). By-the-way, at 7.00am this morning it was cold enough on the summit of Ben Nevis for a light flurry of snow. Aonach Mor was reading 1.9 Celcius, so the top of the Ben would have been around 0.7 Celcius. Whether it snowed or not I'm not sure. I'm doing a survey on the 22nd (or 21st, depends on the weather) August on the Nevis Range, where I will be visiting some of the existing snow. If anyone fancies coming along then drop me a PM!

The snow visible from the A9 at Drumochter has lain unusually long this year, due to the fact that the gullies that the patches are lying in are west-facing. This reflects the easterly dominance of the snow this year. The picture below was taken by me on the 1st July, but I don't know how much is left now. Still a wee bit I'd have thought... There has been a huge loss of snow in the last couple of weeks, particularly on the Cairngorm-Macdui plateau. The weather has been warm, but not especially so. My own hypothesis is that the lack of freeze-thaw cycles over winter meant that the huge volumes of snow that fell did not consolidate. I can't remember one SW 'hairdryer' over a winter that was characterised by cold, clear weather interspersed with heavy snow from the north, east and south-east. The prognosis for the remaining patches is not good in my opinion. So much so that I think we'll be lucky to have any survivals this year. I don't expect any in the west (for the first time since 2006), and only hope that the old faithfuls of Braeriach pull through.

Due to the easterly and north-easterly direction of much of the snowfall this year, southerly and westerly aspects are holding snow longer than usual, though the NE facing corries have fared much worse. Snow persisted into June on the south facing slope of Ben Lomond (never happened since 1983 when I started observing). A patch survived on Carnedd Llewelyn, Wales, until the 28th June. Very late indeed. I'm not 100% sure of the hills with snow on them near Braemar, but with regards your question on snow persisting 'til winter on Lochnagar: it has happened twice since 1938 (when records exist). The first was in 1947, when a lot of snow fell on SE winds (i.e. good for NW aspects), and again in 1951 (the snowiest of the 20th century in Highland Scotland). Beinn a' Bhuird's best known snow patch (called locally the Laird's Tablecloth) is still large, and faces south. Also, Ben Macdui has some very large patches indeed, as can be seen in the photograph below from the 30th June.

Counting patches in a snowy year is meaningless, unless we're well into the year. For example, take this picture of Aonach Mor from late May. This is just one hill: Where do you start counting?! Where do you stop?!! Some of the 'patches' are really too large to be called patches. For example, on the 1st July at Ben Macdiu, it is virtually certain that there will be snow that is over 1km in length, unbroken. There will be other patches that will be hundreds of metres long. That's why counting them individually (at least prior to 1st July) is pointless. The best method is to compare the cover to previous years. It's really the only way to do a survey meaningfully.

Yes, Norrance, there are several patches reported in this area: most unusual for the time of year. One of them, doubtless, was this one on Ben Tirran (on Gowed Hole). Located here. Still an awful lot of snow in the Cairngorms, but not as much in the usual NE facing corries. As of the 19th June, there is still a little patch persisting at Carnedd Llewellyn, Wales! Location is around here: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=268520&Y=365095&A=Y&Z=130

As of the 11th June there are is still snow in England & Wales: one on Cross Fell in the Pennines (possibly one of Great Dun Fell, too) and at least one on Carnedd Llewelyn, Wales. 100+? More like 100,000! Some of the "patches" are vast. Ben Macdui will have deep cover over much of its top 1000 ft. As of the 1st July (when we do our annual survey), I would expect to see patches over one kilometre in the Cairngorms. I think the lack of SW storms will have an impact on the amount of patches that will survive this year. The normal NE facing corries and hollows that hold snow for long periods of time are bereft of proper deep cover, though certain sites which face E (such as Ciste Mhearad in the Cairngorms) will have benefited from at least one big NW storm over the winter.

Good pictures of Cross Fell, Tucco. Are these the only patches left, or are these on the north side? I would have thought the patches on the south side are still fairly substantial.

Really? My information was that it had vanished. Do you know if it's still there? I'd dearly like to see that picture, DS. Can you post it? Thanks.

The latest that snow has been observed in the Pennines in the last 50-years or so was in 1979. A local farmer at Temple Sowerby reported two tiny patches at the head of Crowdundle Beck on the 18th of August that year. In 1951 the snow-patch at the head of Brown Cove, Helvellyn, lasted until the 10th July. However, both these were unusually snowy winters: much more so than this year. I don't know of any snow that has persisted until Autumn (i.e. after September equinox) in England or Wales. For that sort of date nowadays you'd have to chase high into the hills of the Nevis Range or the Cairngorms. I have never seen the snow persist so long on the south face of Ben Lomond as I have done this year. The last patch vanished on the 22nd or 23rd of May, though some still persist in the north-east corrie. Also, there are still patches on Carnedd Llewelyn in north Wales.

By-the-way, snowy owl, the snow will last way longer than June on Cairn Gorm! Are you referring to Cairn Gorm itself in you signature, or the range as a whole?

Some close-ups of the Ochils from yesterday. Photographs courtesy of Mark Johnson. I'd be very surprised if the two largest patches (on Ben Cleuch and White Wisp) make it to June. Still, late May is incredibly rare, so I'll take that! http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/sets/72157624080343468/