firefly

Well, I though it was time for an update. As far as we know, the only patch left north of the Great Glen is on Tom a' Choinnich, where the red dot is. This photograph from yesterday shows it very small, and will be gone in a couple of days. Other than that, all remaining snow in Scotland is to be found in the Cairngorms and Nevis Range. A cracking photograph from yesterday also shows a 250m long snow-patch on Ben Nevis. Pretty much the same amount of snow as this time last year.

Ah, Mr Spink! He was an enthusiast, for sure. The trouble with his field work is that it wasn't done systematically. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but because it was done 'as and when', there are gaps in the data. Anyway, here are some of his publications: Spink P C. 1980. A summary of snow surveys in Scotland: 1965-78. Journal of Meteorology 5. 105-111. Spink P C. 1980. Scottish snow-beds in summer: 1979 survey and some comments on the last 30 years. Weather 35. 256-259. Spink P C. 1979. Scottish snow beds in summer 1978. Weather 34. 158-160. Spink P C. 1978. Scottish snow beds in summer 1977. Weather 33. 278-279. Spink P C. 1974. Scottish snow beds in summer 1973. Weather 29. 151-154 Spink P C. 1973. Scottish snow beds in summer 1972. Weather 28. 162-164.

The statement about dry air melting snow less quickly than wet air is, I think, accurate. Although 1976 was a long, hot summer, it was - naturally - dry. This, coupled with the early arrival of the snow in September, possibly saved the 2 patches that survived that year. By-the-way, I don't think you'll find anything in Weather about surviving snow-patches on Scottish hills in the mid-'70s. Adam Watson didn't start publishing the annual journal until the mid-'90s. Possibly someone else's work you were reading?

Thanks, Arron. I don't believe there are any left on a southerly or westerly aspect. The last southerly I know of was the Laird's Tablecloth (as the snow-patch is known locally as on upper Deeside), on Beinn a'Bhuird, but this went in late July. I'll make an enquiry on that, though. Good question!

Thanks, Arron - a good clear photograph. What date was it taken? Interesting that you didn't see any on Carn Eige or Mam Sodhail. I am not terribly familiar with the hills of Affric/Strathfarrar so can't say which ones are likely to be still holding snow, but Tom a'Choinich is well known for holding snow, and - indeed - snow survived at the location your picture shows, in 1951 and 1955. Other hills where snow is likely to last (and where survivals have also been noted) are Sgurr na Lapaich, An Riabhachan and Toll Creagach. I'm fairly sure these 3 hills will still have some, somewhere! I agree it's likely this is one of the few remaining north of the Great Glen. Thanks again.

Yes, tell me about it! I don't know what the Latin name for one that loves snow, but the Greek term is chionophile. TWS, glad you read the "Weather" journal. I don't know if I've posted it on this forum, but I'm a co-author of that paper.

Thundery wintry showers, I assume you've got a good weather almanac, as you trip off the weather stats with consumate ease! I don't have such an almanac, but will say this... The thing that saved the snow-patches in 1976 wasn't so much the volume of snow that fell in winter, but rather the exceptionally early snows of later on that year. Lasting snow came to the Cairngorms' patches (2-off) in the first week of September! The 2 patches (Garbh Choire Mor) would certainly have melted but for this early snow. Check out Adam Watson's picture from the 19th September, about 11 days after those big falls. Fast forward nearly a month to the 2nd October and John Pottie's photograph of the Sphinx patch at Garbh Choire Mor and you can see the new snow sitting on top of the old, acting as an insulating blanket. It's a wonderful picture. As for how many will survive this year... it's too early to say. Your estimate, I feel, though, is likely to be accurate. Tell me this... why such an interest? :lol: I'm curious!

Ah, Norrance, I can tell you're a good Scot! No-one in England uses the word 'outwith', and I don't know how they get by without it! As for what snow will survive outwith Nevis Range and the Cairngorms into August, that's quite tricky... The most southerly snow still extant in Scotland is a patch on Bidean nam Bian, between the Bidean itself and Stob Coire nam Beith (see attached picture). Farther east (and north), there are still a couple of reasonable sized patches on the Aisre Cham of Geal-charn (Ben Alder hills, see attached picture). There will also be snow on the Strathfarrar hills (Sgurr na Lapaich etc), but I haven't seen a recent report, so can't comment on how much. For sure, there will still be some. I'm also reasonably confident Carn Eighe/Mam Sodhail will have a wee bit, but - again - I haven't seen any recent photographs to confirm that. Other than these, I'm scratching my head a wee bit to think what others there will be. None at Grey Corries or Mamores. None south of Glencoe. Nothing left on the Monadh Liath, either. There may possibly be a wee bit lurking here or there, but I can't imagine much will last into August. As for how old some of the snow is... Nothing in Scotland is older than late 2006 (a year that saw all snow melt by October), so by my reckoning the snow that dates from this period (November/December 2006) are: Garbh Choire Mor, Braeriach (2 patches); Observatory Gully, Ben Nevis; Aonach Beag. In all, 4 patches that are approaching 3-years old. Put it into perspective: when the snow melted at Garbh Choire Mor in 1996, it had been present for 37-years, as the last time it melted before that was 1959. I kid you not! I've uploaded some pictures of a snow-free Garbh Choire Mor from 1959 here. Compare that to the photos I took on the 27th September 2008, which are here*. * - Two interesting things about that photograph are: 1) the impressive covering of pohlia wahlenbergii moss, which grows near to long-lying snow patches in Scotland, but is absent (apparently) from England. 2) I believe that on this day I observed Britain's highest recorded amphibian, which jumped out from behind the snow-patch at the top. Altitude was 3700ft, and the record was confirmed to me by the famous Scottish ecologist Adam Watson.

If you fancy a day on the hill on the 22nd August then me and a couple of others are heading up to Ben Nevis to see the snow there. Details are here: http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,106947 Cheers.

Still lots left. We won't start talking specific numbers until about the end of August. Still in the hundreds at present. No, I don't think that's right. The snow that you are referring to will have melted slowly. The only time when patches crack up and collapse in on themselves is when they are being melted from the bottom, as when a patch sits on bare bedrock. Even this takes a while, and certainly more than a couple of days. I was up the Ben Nevis range of hills yesterday (Aonach Mor & Aonach Beag), and the results of my journey are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/sets/72157621646627828/ Encountered 3 patches that exceeded 200m long, and many more that were smaller. Going back for a look there on the 22nd August if anyone's interested!

Haven't heard if Ben More's gone, but I expect it has. Probably a couple of days ago. Also, what a difference a month makes. Check out the two pictures (courtesy of Stuart Gordon), taken exactly a month apart (14th June and July) at the Feith Buidhe slabs, Cairngorms. Twenty feet of melting?

Sure do! I know where most of them where... 1994's lowest altitude survival was at Lochan nan Gabhar, Ben A'an. It was at 935m on a north-easterly aspect. That year loads of snow survived that doesn't otherwise, such as Creag Meagaidh. A northeast-facing patch at 840m nearly survived in 1972 at Coire na Ciste on Cairn Gorm. Still 15m long on 11 October, it would have lasted if heavy snow had fallen as in some early Octobers, but it vanished by 4 November. The lowest patch of snow ever to survive on Scotland's hills (that I am aware of) was at 740m on Ben A'an at this location. This happened in 1951 and 1967. Other places were snow has survived where you wouldn't expect it to have are the Mamores and the Grey Corries!

Don't worry, Norrance, I've heard from a source on south Loch Tay that Beinn Heasgarnich's snow is now gone. Actually, it went a couple of weeks ago, which is unusually early. I would think that Ben More's snow is either in its last day or possibly 2. My south Tay contact can see it from his window, so will get an accurate melt date. :lol:

Zerouali, The mountain you refer to is Beinn a'Bhuird. It had a huge wreath on its south-facing slope last year on the 1st July. This patch (called the Laird's Tablecloth, on account of its name) was split in two this year, with much ground between the two existing patches. For sure there's less than this year, but about the same as 2007. The attached panorama was taken from the top of Glas Maol, and if you zoom in you can see most of the Cairngorms big mountains, complete with the remaining snow patches that face S-E etc. Many more are hidden, obviously, but this gives a good idea of what's there. For those interested, the mountain with the most snow is Ben Macdui, which is in the centre of the picture. The Laird's Tablecloth is towards the right of the picture, before Ben A'an (and its torrs).

Excellent work! Bizarre coincidence, as I just got off the phone to a local at Loch Tay who informed me that Ben More still had a wee bit left! Weird! Looks to be around 10m in length, and if it lasts this week then I'll be surprised.

The term “hair-drier” used refers specifically to the dry, warm winds from the south-east in the summer. I take your point that the term is used generically to describe all warm winds that strip snow, but in this context we used it to describe a specific type of wind. As for survivals this year, it’s absolutely way too early to guess. What I would say, though, is that the cover isn’t as good as it was this time in 2008, but slightly better than 2007. However, 2007’s summer wasn’t as warm as last year’s, so the snow survival was broadly the same. Adam and I will be surveying from Glenshee tomorrow, so will be able to give a better impression in a couple of days.

Ben More's snow is still there. It will certainly be melting fast in this heat, but I would expect it to last until into the first week of July. I'm hoping to get a look at it in person in a few days' time from below. Judging from this photograph from the 25th June, the snow looks about 50m long. It will have shrunk rapidly over the last few days, being exposed to the sunlight for long periods, and the fact that it isn't too deep. It is, without doubt, the most southerly snow in Britain. The nearby snows of Ben Lui and Ben Lawers will almost certainly now have vanished. I have uploaded them, and the first one shows Ben Lawers on the 21st June, and Ben Lui on the 25th June. When Ben More's snow goes, the most southerly snow in Britain will almost certainly be Beinn Heasgarnich, above Glen Lochay. That persisted until late July in 2008, and I would expect that not to last past the 2nd week in July this year. When that goes, it becomes more difficult to say which will be the most southerly. My best guess is the Glencoe hills, although Beinn Heasgarnich lasted about the same as these patches last year. I'm doing a snow survey with Dr Adam Watson on the 1st July at Glenshee, where we hope to see a lot of the Cairngorms snow, and hopefully a wee bit at Glas Maol.

Thanks, Norrance. When you say visible from low level, I assume you didn't see Beinn Heasgarnich? That will, for sure, have snow on it. Ben More at Crianlarich will also have snow on it, but there has been a big loss in the last week due to warm rain and wind. A video from yesterday of a few of the guys ski-ing on Cairngorm!:

Yes indeed, ladies and gentlemen, just when you were getting out the sun cream for a hopefully balmy summer, hardy Scots are polishing up their skis and snowboards and heading to the Cairn Gorms for one last slide on the remaining snow. This year it's the Ciste Mhearad, a long-lying patch on the north-east shoulder of Cairngorm at an altitude of around 3500-ft. There will be queer looks on the faces of the tourists on the funicular when they see people loaded with ski-ing equipment on a warm summer's day! http://www.winterhighland.info/pix/pixalbum.php?pix_id=550

Thanks to Stuart Gordon for the attached picture which was taken yesterday at the Feith Buidhe slabs on Ben Macdui. Now that’s some impressive depth!

The summit depth, typically, reaches its greatest depth in April, and has been as late as May in some colder years. Three metres or more of depth is standard. Of course, the summit area doesn't get anything like as much snow as the gullies on the north-east face, due to the snow blowing off the summit and settling below, so the actual depth on the top isn't an accurate reflection of how much snow has actually fallen. As for how deep the snow can actually be in the gullies of Ben Nevis, it's a bit of an estimate. My own view is that Observatory Gully can exceed 20m in depth in some years. Consider this picture of myself at Observatory Gully on the 23rd August 2008. Despite the warm and wet summer, the snow was still 9-10m deep. When you look at the snow-pack in this condition, you can see the layers of snowfall in much the same way you can see the rings of a tree. Some layers are thin, indicating a minor snowfall, whilst some are feet deep, indicating a major fall. They are normally separated by a layer of dirt, making it easier to observe. Also, remember at that altitude (3700 ft), much of the precipitation is likely to fall as snow from around October (sometimes earlier) to May, fully 7 months of accumulation. That's a lot of snow!

...and some impressive summit cornices!

Oh, you'll see snow alright! Here's one from a couple of days ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dooj/36097770...57619482688068/ Still in excess of 1500ft of unbroken snow on the north face!

From the 16th June 2008, on Braeriach. Note how the snow has fallen on Braeriach, but not on Cairn Toul, which is slightly farther south. This often happens when the snow comes from the north. This photograph shows the last recorded snow of the 'old' 2008 season, which fell on Ben Nevis on the 20th June 2008. The next fall of snow (recorded) was in September.

My last post should have read M-8 (as in the motorway), but the zany text-changer on this forum converted my assumed text speak!