UK Mountain Snow/Weather 2008

[skifreak]

Can't seem to see any snow on the Alstom webcams yet, but Cairngorm ski centre is looking good now

The ski tow in the picture isn't looking too good though. Cable still lying strewn around the hill where it fell 9 1/2 months ago.

[firefly]

Yes, Firefly - the photos you've posted and your clear, detailed, consistently well-written reports have been a joy and hugely appreciated.

Thanks guys, I'm glad that there's been so much interest. I thought that I was the only saddo in town to be interested in this stuff, but there's been lots of people keeping watch on this and Winterhighland's thread to see what's happening.

By-the-way, I was up Aonach Mor on Friday to see if the patches were still there, as there have been reports that they'd gone. Glad to say that they've survived (actually it's only one patch that's split into two), though finding them in those attrocious conditions on Friday was a nightmare. I spent over an hour in the corrie looking for them. My search was hampered by new snow camouflaging the old; mist that was thicker than a pea-soup; and a GPS meter that gave up the ghost just when I needed it most.

[Norrance]

I was up in the Highlands at the weekend [though not up the hills] and to me the higher slopes above say 2700 feet had that thick white look that indicates a good depth of snow. From pictures and reports on Winter Highland there appears to have been a good deal of drifting in the higher Cairngorms.

The question is whether this new snow will protect the patches enough to make them safe for the year. I know that the warm sector in the next couple of days is likely to bring a thaw but with the drifting the new snow may last in prone higher places.

Does this mean that the patches will survive this year? Any thoughts Firefly / DR H?

[firefly]

By now the hollows containing last season's snow will have filled in sufficiently to protect it from loss. In the east, the lasting snows came on the 5th November (by our calculations). In the west, a couple of weeks later.

It has still to be confirmed for definite, but we expect 9 patches to have survived into winter 2007-2008. Three at Garbh Choire Mor (Braeriach), 3 at Nevis (Observatory Gully), two at Aonach Mor, and one (the largest, and the lowest in terms of altitude) at Aonach Beag.

This suggests that a lot more precipitation fell as snow above 3000-feet last winter in the west than hitherto had been thought. The fact that twice as many survived in the west (Nevis area) than the east (Cairngorms) would tend to support this.

[Norrance]

By now the hollows containing last season's snow will have filled in sufficiently to protect it from loss. In the east, the lasting snows came on the 5th November (by our calculations). In the west, a couple of weeks later.

It has still to be confirmed for definite, but we expect 9 patches to have survived into winter 2007-2008. Three at Garbh Choire Mor (Braeriach), 3 at Nevis (Observatory Gully), two at Aonach Mor, and one (the largest, and the lowest in terms of altitude) at Aonach Beag.

This suggests that a lot more precipitation fell as snow above 3000-feet last winter in the west than hitherto had been thought. The fact that twice as many survived in the west (Nevis area) than the east (Cairngorms) would tend to support this.

Thanks Firefly. It looks as though despite the mild Winter 2006/7 that this has the highest survival rate for a good few years. 2000/1 perhaps?

Anyway here's hoping for a good season this winter on the mountains.

[firefly]

Yes, the most snow patch survivals since 2001. Before that, 1994.

[Northernlights]

This last summer was cool dull and wet in June and July up here. Had open fires every weekend and the oil fired rayburn was on all the time when during the last 5 summers its been too warm and they were not used. Must have had a positive effect on snowpatch survival. Also the amount of early season snow at high levels on Ben Wyvis across the Firth seems more than previous years so it seems we have had more cooler spells in Autumn up here this year.

[stevehammo]

have been out a fair bit in the snow in the northen corries,

and a lot of snow is now in the gullys,

i think from such a cool summer is the reson for the good snow patch suvievel numbers,

there was a lot of snow in the gullys at end of last year and the very settled weather we had in apral just consoladated them. and keeped them frosen

also i have a qestion?

the snow that we are haveing just now has been here for a while now, in the past years we always get some sort of snow in november but always it compleatly disapears till end of dec of jan!

when was the last time we had snow from nov right though the winter?

some of my climbing photos are on a web site called snow conditions and click on the conditions page

ps i climb not spell!!!!! sorry

[Thundery wintry showers]

I'm guessing that last winter, though very mild, mustn't have been mild enough to prevent big snowfalls from occurring from time to time in the Highlands, causing large drifts to build up in east and northeast-facing slopes.

Yes, the most snow patch survivals since 2001. Before that, 1994.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think you're meaning 2000 rather than 2001 (2001 had low snow patch retention because although the winter was cold and snowy in the Highlands, much of the snow came from south-east winds, rather like 1996).

2000's high snow patch retention might come as a surprise to some, but in the Highlands Winter 1999/2000 was like a less mild version of last winter (indeed December 1999 was rather cold), resulting in frequent heavy blowing snow at high altitude from westerly and south-westerly winds.

[Norrance]

I'm guessing that last winter, though very mild, mustn't have been mild enough to prevent big snowfalls from occurring from time to time in the Highlands, causing large drifts to build up in east and northeast-facing slopes.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think you're meaning 2000 rather than 2001 (2001 had low snow patch retention because although the winter was cold and snowy in the Highlands, much of the snow came from south-east winds, rather like 1996).

2000's high snow patch retention might come as a surprise to some, but in the Highlands Winter 1999/2000 was like a less mild version of last winter (indeed December 1999 was rather cold), resulting in frequent heavy blowing snow at high altitude from westerly and south-westerly winds.

Yes you are correct. It was 1999/2000. 2001 had a lot more snow especially in February and March but it came in on North Easterlies so built up on the South West facing slopes and was soon melted by the sun and prevailing wind and rain conditions.

[skifreak]

This photo taken by Jamie from highland-instinct on 1st April 2007 shows just how well cover built up on favoured aspects and indeed how dramatic the difference between different aspects can be. Despite the exceptionally mild winter lack of SKIERS rather than lack of snow ended the season at Nevis Range and Glencoe!

Edited December 6, 2007 by skifreak

[Devonian]

By now the hollows containing last season's snow will have filled in sufficiently to protect it from loss. In the east, the lasting snows came on the 5th November (by our calculations). In the west, a couple of weeks later.

It has still to be confirmed for definite, but we expect 9 patches to have survived into winter 2007-2008. Three at Garbh Choire Mor (Braeriach), 3 at Nevis (Observatory Gully), two at Aonach Mor, and one (the largest, and the lowest in terms of altitude) at Aonach Beag.

This suggests that a lot more precipitation fell as snow above 3000-feet last winter in the west than hitherto had been thought. The fact that twice as many survived in the west (Nevis area) than the east (Cairngorms) would tend to support this.

Quite impressive.

So, four localities? Are some of these patches one patch that got split by melting? Is it possible that if the summer had been colder the number of patches surviving might, perversely, have been less? Or are these patch pretty distinct things?

[Zerouali lives]

I was hoping that this up and coming cold snap would provide the Scottish Ski Centres with some much needed business but unfortunately it looks like all the snow that does fall later this week will have thawed soon after judging by a very mild forecast for next weekend

[Zerouali lives]

Well it won't be mild in Scotland now this weekend - excellent news for the Ski Centres and I noticed that some runs are expected to open tomorrow with more to be assesed once conditions ease. And, with cool zonality expected throughout the coming week, we should begin to see deep bases developing particularly on the Nevis Range and Cairngorm. A cool westerly or south-westerly feed should also fill up those north east facing coires - excellent for summer snow patch retension.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Zerouali lives

[Cookie]

On reporting scotland they where saying how most of the slopes would be open tomorrow.

[Upgrade]

This last summer was cool dull and wet in June and July up here. Had open fires every weekend and the oil fired rayburn was on all the time

you really do have a different climate up there, its quite amazing. in my flat even in winter i tend to need the heating on only 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the evening. and not at all between mid march and mid november.

just goes to show the Uk has big variations in climate conditions, year round. hence why we shouldnt be too surprised when highland scotland gets snow but lowland english cities get only drizzle, i guess.

you really do have a different climate up there, its quite amazing. in my flat even in winter i tend to need the heating on only 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the evening. and not at all between mid march and mid november.

just goes to show the Uk has big variations in climate conditions, year round. hence why we shouldnt be too surprised when highland scotland gets snow but lowland english cities get only drizzle, i guess.

ps how long do the snowpatches have to last to become glaciers?

[skifreak]

ps how long do the snowpatches have to last to become glaciers?

It's more size and thus having the volume and weight of snow for nivation to progress far enough to form glacial ice. Oh to have the situation where we could debate whether it was a snowpatch or a glacier! :huh:

[Cymro]

Do you reckon it could be possible to have glaciers in the scottish highlands? If snow patches last for a number of years on end and then later strengthening and becoming glacial formations.

[swfc]

Do you reckon it could be possible to have glaciers in the scottish highlands? If snow patches last for a number of years on end and then later strengthening and becoming glacial formations.

In the current climate i would say no.To be honest getting a decent fall of snow in the uk is hard enough.

[The PIT]

Do you reckon it could be possible to have glaciers in the scottish highlands? If snow patches last for a number of years on end and then later strengthening and becoming glacial formations.

In the past yes. Heck we even had em in the peak district if go back to the ice ages. I wonder how close it came during the mini ice age.

[skifreak]

There is some evidence of small glacial presence in the Northern Corries of CairnGorm Mountain as late as the end of the 18th Cent. I'd settle for being able to ski Coire Cas till mid-summers day regularly!

[Zerouali lives]

Ski resorts really are in for a treat this week. Snow should pile up to create some really deep bases.

The webcam at the Lecht was a total whiteout earlier today http://www.lecht.co.uk/photos.cfm

[skifreak]

A good view on CairnGorm today!

Live Cam:

As this thread has been renamed to 2008 could the posts in the Scottish Mountain Snow 2008 thread I started in November be moved in here as it's been locked?

Image from earlier:

[skifreak]

Damn it, no sooner did I post that and the link went down!

[Mark Bayley]

How much snow is up there? The ski resorts must be doing very well

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