Model Output Discussion - Your Thoughts

[James M]

How about having a sub-forum called Snow-Watch :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think that would be rather like tempting fate

[The watcher]

What I think should be done to improve model discussion for those not wishing to "Trawl", is possibly a stickied Professional Model Discussion thread in which only senior and professional forecasters can make quality posts but everyone can view. This could possibly be done by a restriction on which members can post in the thread (via password required upon trying to post in the thread or using the forum options to limit/choose who can).

Obviously the normal model discussion thread can be used for the less elaborate posts.

A poll could be done to suggest the forecasters who could be allowed access to the Pro Model Discussion Thread.

[J07]

I think you have a difficult job making something that works and keeps everyone happy.

Yes, it is tedious going through the one line posts. The simple solution is to use the ignore button, but that means one-line posters will not get the chance to learn and improve. Mods can only do so much, even posting politely along the lines of "no one line posts please" does not work too well because they still happen anyway! And it's too time consuming to shift all the posts...and inevitably you end up with people then posting one line questions "what happened to my post, lol?".

A moderator's task is thankless!

Most people know, or learn, to gravitate towards reading the posts of "experienced" members ahead of most others. This happens even if they have to wade through a fair bit of poor quality posting.

However, the danger of reserving a topic just for certain people might lead to elitism, as others have mentioned. Just from casual reading it is true that there is something of a "clique" here, but it's nowhere near as bad as other forums and it's generally based upon high quality posting and analysis (I think "cliques" are inevitable in human interaction so don't take this as a personal attack). I would be careful though about considering "experience" as something inherently worthy. Having an account on netweather for 5 years and "model watching" does not necessarily imply strong meteorological knowledge. No one would ever guess it by my posts but I am a meteorologist, and I think there is a lot lot more to meteorology than model watching.

Despite these risks, I favour the idea of having a "advanced/experienced" topic, where the contributors are voted in by the general populace of the forum. I think this would be an excellent way to both get an overview of the situation and in depth analysis in the same thread.

Disclaimer though.....my conclusion is biased towards my preference for coming here to read, rather than contribute, and because I don't have a strong preference for a particular sort of weather when it's on the other side of the world. I just like to keep up with the general and technical aspects of what is going on, and the solution above favours my style.

I would love to log on during a severe cold snap (or the run up) and just see a thread full of JH, TWS, nick sussex, Nick F, GP, Steve Murr, Brickfielder etc etc etc. To reiterate, it would be a great way to both get an overview of the way things are going and get the analysis....all in one easy-to-navigate place.

Good luck with whatever route you take.

[Coast]

Tricky one this and we do get the same problem every year. I wonder if renaming the Model Output Discussion to Model Analysis Thread would help keep the emphasis on people interpreting data rather than posting the one liners, off topics and 'will it snow in'. We already have a Winter Discussion Thread for general and longer term views/forecasts and a Cold Snap Thread for specific, identified snow/cold possibilities. I'm worried that diluting the conversation down into even more topics and threads may loose some of the excellent posting we generally see when members post about the models.

I guess it's down to us in the Mods team to move the off topic posts into the appropriate area, but as I am fast learning - that's quite a formidable task at times!!

[smich]

Hi,

Just to add a couple of thoughts:

Like Iceni on the first page (and others) I don't think things are too bad. It's a bit of a trawl at times, but when scrolling I know when to stop if I've seen a post by member I recognise/respect. Do we need a major overhaul here - will that not cause more grief...?

Nick Sussex's suggestion is a terrific idea - some kind of guide /pop up/whatever to advise on what all the jargon means. How many posts are there from genuinely interested people just asking what an acronym is about? Almost as many as there are "will is snow here?" ones.

On a personal note - you could take a couple of Emoticons out of the catalogue. Given how emotional things get on the model threads as it is, I think they cause more trouble than they are worth! A couple of examples are:

usually after putting up a stonking FI chart

usually after putting up a stonking FI chart

After a downgrade

However, for some reason I always like to see the one with the woolly scarf and hat!

Keep up the good work!

Steve M (smich)

Edited December 6, 2009 by smich

[Hiya]

Why not pull out good posts from the model thread and put them into a locked thread?

[guitarnutter]

Bring back reputation!

[Evo]

I apologise in advance for the ranting nature of this contribution!

Due to time and other reasons I've been content to be a very irregular read-only patron of Net Weather for the last couple of years. I must say that this Autumn/Winter it has almost driven me to drink. I don't blame anyone in particular but this, to me, is nothing like the place it was 4-5 years ago. That is neither good nor bad, it's just progress I suppose.

Without wanting to be patronising (but no doubt sounding like a pompous git), I feel a lot of the friction in the Model thread is caused by either young or inexperienced members. It's easy to forget that it is not mandatory, nor desirable, to share your every thought with the world. I've noticed that some members who used to irritate me in the past with pointless and childish posts now post with a great deal of eloquence and thought. I'm aware that this is as much a case of me being older and grumpier too. Too many people ask questions that have been answered at length many times before. If you can’t be bothered to search the forum, or type something into Google, why should anybody else bother to help you? I also think some people treat this forum a bit like MSN and expect instant gratification.

It just irks me that if some of these people diverted their seemingly boundless energy from what is, brutally, a pursuit that is pointless as far as human advancement is concerned, to a truly worthy pursuit our race would be a lot better off.

For instance, why not try to find a better way of approximating the Navier Stokes equations? Not only will it lead to an advancement in numerical weather prediction you can also pocket a million bucks from the Millennium Prize folks too. If you have no idea what the Navier Stokes equations are, you probably don't have any business criticizing a numerical weather prediction model...

After getting all that off my chest, I do have a recommendation. Clearly from previous years separate threads die a death quickly. I remember trying to look in vain at various topics such as data assimilation weaknesses but these fall off the bottom very quickly. The same has/will happen with any technical thread. A new style of thread is wholly reliant on its users to make it a success. What I would propose is one of two things:

i) A pinned in-depth thread where all contributions are pre-moderated and clear posting standards are set – minimum length, relevancy etc. Then a moderator can allow or disallow a post in that thread based on clearly defined standards that apply to everyone. That way everyone knows where they stand. I suspect that this would see little use, though.

ii) Giving a filter option for the main discussion thread where one can click a button and view just the posts by the forecast team that have been made in that thread. More difficult but better would be where each user can create a “want to read posts by” list where they can add the users they want to read posts by in a thread. That way at a click of a button you can have the normal thread or your own customised thinned-down thread. I don’t like the ignore function for this as this is too permanent and rather than say who you don’t want to read posts by, say who you do want to read posts by. I also think it would be better that it’s something you can turn on when needed rather than something that’s always on. Ignoring someone in perpetuity because they may have annoyed you one day isn’t great for the community really.

I’ll crawl back from whence I came now

[johnholmes]

As one of the old ones on here and a constant complainer about the level of, excuse the expression some of you, tripe that is put on the model threads I totally agree with the final paragraph. Sadly I suspect Paul will come back and say its technically not possible.

Your point about a technical thread is also valid. What does seem acceptable though is for blogs to be widely read. Some of the numbers showing reading my recent blogs has been staggering so perhaps that is a way forward? It seems most people read what I've posted and don't take offence at it being separate from the main model discussion area?

Maybe one of the team could be allocated to doing something on which he/she is reasonably competent and that pinned at the top of the relevant thread along with any updates done?

any good Paul?

[MAF]

.......

I'll crawl back from whence I came now

Evo!! dont crawl back without making a few more frequent visits eh

oh, and well put that man!

[Nick L]

There is a fine line though between separating good and bad posts and isolating new members who genuinely want to learn and develop their knowledge. We have to be careful not to do the latter.

However, I think we do need a new restricted thread where respected, knowledgeable members can post their thoughts. That way someone who is in a hurry can read a few of the latest comments on there rather than sift through some of the garbage we are seeing in the model thread in the last few days.

There are certain members on this forum who post ultra negative/ultra positive comments in the model thread simply to get a reaction, something needs to be done about these as well, but that's for another discussion.

Edited December 12, 2009 by nick2702

[MAF]

Bring back reputation!

why? the only thing that reputation marking does for a person is highlight whether the person has a broad audience or not. regardless of quality of post that a person makes, if he/she has a large fan base then the reputation will increase. but the quality of posts could be absolute drivel. reputation marking does not neccessarily make a post technically or subjectly/topically good (IMHO)

[stewfox]

I apologise in advance for the ranting nature of this contribution!

Without wanting to be patronising (but no doubt sounding like a pompous git), I feel a lot of the friction in the Model thread is caused by either young or inexperienced members. It's easy to forget that it is not mandatory, nor desirable, to share your every thought with the world.

For instance, why not try to find a better way of approximating the Navier Stokes equations? Not only will it lead to an advancement in numerical weather prediction you can also pocket a million bucks from the Millennium Prize folks too.

Excellent post fully agree

I have spent a few years looking at the NavierStokes equations particulary around the subject of fluids . The old adage of studing velocity not postion for a fluid is generally held to make more sense. However I fill there is an inherent weakness at looking at Velocity and position seperately . Bit like trying to unify without 11 dimensions !. See if here if people are interested www.stewartphdclasses.com

Anyway on to the serious stuff I hear it wont snow in my back garden at T384

Edited December 12, 2009 by stewfox