Manmade Climate Change Discussion

[Jax]

 

 

 

HI Jax,

Wikipedia has an interesting article on the history of climate change science, which dates back to the early 19th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_science

Also, a scientific theory and a general idea/theory are very different things. It's perfectly normal that science adds to it's knowledge with new discoveries. It's what differentiates it from faith and dogma, and it's a feature of all scientific areas.

 

As for your final question, that depends on the timeframe that your asking (among numerous other factors).

 

Thanks BFTV, much appreciated, and the link kind of backs up what I was trying to say in the other thread, in that we are still newborns in the grand scheme of things when it comes to understanding GW.

 

In that whilst we can record that there is GW taking place it is still not fully understood as the the full list of causes and what the effects will be if they continue, but we know they are taking place in a form or another, some understood others not so.

[knocker]

My tag GW and cheers PM.

 

A recent tweet by Reic Steig. "This blog post about our paper by Irene Quaile is pretty good. I agree with her "take" on our work".

 

Greenland melt natural or man-made?

http://blogs.dw.de/ice/?p=15081

Edited May 10, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

Tornadoes and Climate Change: Challenges in Interpreting the Record and Looking Forward

[knocker]

Some musing on TOBS by Nick Stokes.

 

  The necessity of TOBS

[Gray-Wolf]

So CO2 helps plants grow faster but not to pull up the nutrients we need?

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-global-warming-may-starve-us-more-carbon-less-nutrition-n99481

 

How will our denier friends spin this?

[knocker]

So CO2 helps plants grow faster but not to pull up the nutrients we need?

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-global-warming-may-starve-us-more-carbon-less-nutrition-n99481

 

How will our denier friends spin this?

 

Well just a couple of comments from the WUWT illiterati GW.

 

 

Back in grade school we took a bar magnet to a box of oatmeal. The magnet pulled out the iron filings they use enrich the cereal.

Cereals have never been a major source od dietary iron. That’s why you’re supposed to eat your spinach.

 

 

Hmm… It’s not like wheat is good for you anyway (See Heart Scan Blog or Wheat Belly Diet by Dr Mike Davis) for more information. Some are quite susceptible to wheat based food (diabetes and heart disease).

Anyway, I’ll have to see more studies to make sure that study holds up or not because as everybody already knows, leftists are desperate to label CO2 as dangerous so they’re looking for ways to demonize it.

 

WUWT is severely undernourished when it comes to the science of crop production with rising CO2

http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/05/wuwt-is-severely-undernourished-when-it.html

[Gray-Wolf]

It appears they wish humanity to ape Pandas and make up for poor food value by massive amounts of ingestion...... anyone for 12hrs a day munching on weetabix?????

[Gray-Wolf]

For climate scientists, a major question is whether the coming event will be big enough to flip the world into the warm phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), a 20- to 30-year climate cycle that is related to El Niño or La Niña conditions. For nearly the past 20 years—probably since 1997 to 1998—the PDO has been in a cool phase, and La Niña conditions have typically prevailed. There is tenuous evidence that a strong El Niño event could push the PDO back into a warm phase—one in which El Niño events would be more common. That could allow heat from the ocean to be released into the atmosphere—causing a jump in atmospheric global warming, Trenberth says: “This could be a very important year.â€

 

From;

 

http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2014/05/el-ni%C3%B1o-coming-back?

 

So it isn't just me showing concern over the possible large scale impacts of a strong nino?

 

We already know that the I.P.O. (deep ocean warming phase at present) is due to flip but will PDO do likewise??

 

Should this prove to be the case folk had better start to educate themselves on the scale of the 'extra energy' and ice free Arctic will also bring to the table as there is no way that ice levels can survive the onslaught of a planet warming at the rate it must come a conflagration of positive natural drivers and the imminent return of the 'perfect melt storm'.

 

To me this next period will be a game changer, a proper 'climate shift' with temp rises occurring so rapidly as to be near instantaneous ( 5 year max).

[knocker]

I comment not.

 

Honest, wide-ranging, scientifically informed conversation about sustainable technologies and cultures, toward a thriving future

 

 

Wind is God’s way of balancing heat. Wind is the way you shift heat from areas where it’s hotter to areas where it’s cooler. That’s what wind is. Wouldn’t it be ironic if in the interest of global warming we mandated massive switches to energy, which is a finite resource, which slows the winds down, which causes the temperature to go up? Now, I’m not saying that’s going to happen, Mr. Chairman, but that is definitely something on the massive scale. I mean, it does make some sense. You stop something, you can’t transfer that heat, and the heat goes up. It’s just something to think about.

 

Federal Representative Joe Barton, Republican of Texas, with a tip of the hat to Mr. Coke Dilworth

[Gray-Wolf]

 

I've always said that this was the problem that gave rise to the issue that there is still a debate.......

Edited May 12, 2014 by Gray-Wolf

[knocker]

Emblamatic of current state of play. Latest scientific papers on the West Antarctica Ice Sheet and this,

 

Australian coal bonanza may provoke a climate catastrophe

 

Australia is planning to open nine new mega mines in an area larger than Britain, which geologists say could yield at least 27 billion tonnes of coal.

 

The deposits in the 96,000 square mile (250,000 sq km) Galilee basin are among the biggest global reserves of thermal coal — the type most suited to electricity generation. However, expoiting them would make the area the world’s seventh-largest emitter of greenhouse gases.

 

The University of Technology, Sydney, has calculated that if all nine mines planned for the Galilee go ahead then, in 16 years’ time, the yearly extra emissions will equate to putting another 7.59 million cars on the road.

 

Accessing the basin’s coal wealth had long been an unrealisable dream. Lang Hancock, the late Australian iron-ore magnate, tried to secure a deal in the 1980s with Nicolae Ceausescu, the Romanian dictator, to open up what he called the Galilee’s “buried sunshineâ€..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

The 34 huge open-cut mines and 15 underground mines planned mean that up to 4,800 coal ships will travel through the Great Barrier Reef world heritage area every year. Enormous amounts of dredging of the sea floor will also be required.

 

Twelve days ago, Unesco, the UN heritage body, condemned the Australian government’s approval for the dredged spoil to be dumped near the reef.

 

Full story (paywall)

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article4087779.ece

Edited May 13, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

Sounds interesting..........................

 

[BornFromTheVoid]

Dr. Heidi Steltzer is doing an AMA on reddit today. Here's the short bio she prepared

 

I’m an environmental biology professor at Fort Lewis College Durango, CO, USA[1] , and I study the biological impacts of climate change[2] . I’ve studied the biological consequences of earlier snowmelt, climate warming, and most recently elevated CO2. My research on how elevated CO2, not just climate warming, leads to a longer growing season waspublished in the journal Nature[3] , and reported in the news[4] , including in a New York Times column on changing seasons and its consequences[5] . Studies like mine highlight the need to better understand the impacts of environmental changes that happen at the same time. My study shows an apparent benefit of greater CO2 concentrations on growing season length (ask me how) that we did not expect based on an earlier conceptual model on changing seasons[6] . Earth’s biological systems are changing due to human choices, and we need to better understand the impacts, both positive and negative, to reduce the associated risks.

I will be back at 1 pm EDT to answer your questions, Ask me Anything!

 

 

And the AMA link http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/25m9ex/science_ama_series_i_am_dr_heidi_steltzer_and_my/

[knocker]

Some musing by Eli on the Lennart Bengtsson affair.

 

http://rabett.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/they-are-mad-as-hell-and-not-going-to.html

[Polar Maritime]

[knocker]

Quote Eric Steig

 

Excellent article by Tom Yulsman on both a) Antarctica and sea level and b) how working scientists actually think.

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/imageo/2014/05/14/global-warming-now â€¦

[knocker]

Thanks Cloudman for bringing some clarification to this sorry tale. I wasn't going to post any more on the subject as I'd already posted on the Lennart Bengtsson affair prior to the Times article. Regarding that I've read it twice and it really is an appalling piece of journalism. Compounded I might add by an article in the comments section by Matt Ridley, "This bullying of climate-science sceptics must end". The hypocrosy of this is breathtaking given the well documented hate campaign and libels carried out against respected scientists by Morano and his ilk. Ridley of course is on the advisory board of Lord Lawson of Globby's GWPF. Can you believe it Michael?

Edited May 16, 2014 by knocker

[BornFromTheVoid]

Michael Mann gets death threats, hate mail, white powder sent in envelopes, comparisons with Nazis and paedophiles, emails hacked, constantly ridiculed and accused of fraud... the climate "sceptics" laugh, join in or are silent.

A "sceptic" is advised by colleagues that he's made a questionable decision and a blogger calls him a crybaby... the "climate sceptics" find this intolerable.

 

Says it all really.

[knocker]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-64#entry2969067

 

 

This is a milestone day for AGW hardcore believers. The fact that the Times put this on its front page is highly significant.

 

Really. To whom I wonder because as a reader of the Times for many years I'm totally unsurprised considering Murdoch has always been in the denier camp. The whole sorry tale is a complete farce.

 

 

Variations of the story had been plastered everywhere, spearheaded by Murdoch-owned outlets, repeated uncritically by others.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/may/16/murdoch-media-hypes-lone-climate-denial-big-oil

Edited May 16, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-64#entry2969211

 

 

It's sad that politics and funding drive the science. After climate gate which wasn't ever properly investigated you've got to take everything that the pro warmers say with a huge pinch of salt.

 

It's a darn sight sadder, in fact it's almost melancholic, when people start believing their own propaganda.

 

Debunking Misinformation About Stolen Climate Emails in the "Climategate" Manufactured Controversy

 

Investigations Clear Scientists of Wrongdoing

 

Six official investigations have cleared scientists of accusations of wrongdoing.

 

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/solutions/fight-misinformation/debunking-misinformation-stolen-emails-climategate.html

Edited May 17, 2014 by knocker

[The PIT]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-64#entry2969211

 

 

It's a darn sight sadder, in fact it's almost melancholic, when people start believing their own propaganda.

 

Debunking Misinformation About Stolen Climate Emails in the "Climategate" Manufactured Controversy

 

Investigations Clear Scientists of Wrongdoing

 

Six official investigations have cleared scientists of accusations of wrongdoing.

 

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/solutions/fight-misinformation/debunking-misinformation-stolen-emails-climategate.html

Well they did investigate themselves and after reading the emails it was quiet an eye opener you should read them. I haven't got hem any more and there's a lot of routine stuff. I'm sure you can find them if you look on google.

[knocker]

Well they did investigate themselves and after reading the emails it was quiet an eye opener you should read them. I haven't got hem any more and there's a lot of routine stuff. I'm sure you can find them if you look on google.

 

I have and I think the link I provided covers it more than adequately.

[Devonian]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-64#entry2969187

 

Indeed Keith. And you words carry much more weight because you have so many times denounced the kind of attacks, even death threats, people Like Drs Mann and Hansen have faced...

Edited May 17, 2014 by Devonian

[knocker]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-64#entry2969187

 

Indeed Keith. And you words carry much more weight because you have so many times denounced the kind of attacks, even death threats, people Like Drs Mann and Hansen have faced...

 

Quite Dev.

 

Matt Ridley - Times Makes A Fool Of Him

http://ingeniouspursuits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/matt-ridley-times-makes-fool-of-him.html

 

Or

 

Denier weirdness: Ignominious legacy of a climate scientist

http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/05/denier-weirdness-ignominious-legacy-of.html

[knocker]

One often hears some wittering on about renewable subsidies and how they were invention of the devil, well......................

 

 

These figures are found in the appendix of a major report released last year estimating global energy subsidies at almost $2 trillion. The report estimated that eliminating the subsidies would reduce global carbon emissions by 13 per cent. The stunning statistics specific to this country remain almost completely unreported in Canadian media.

 

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2014/05/15/Canadas-34-Billion-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies/