New Bbc Graphics

[johnholmes]

hi AB

would agree with that about the convergence zone, its there as well, maybe not quite as active, so far, but its there. Ne winds ahead of the shower band and s, or sw to its rear.

regards

John

[The PIT]

Another poor Countryfile forecast, no mention of Friday and no synoptics during the week to give a guide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad I missed it.

Caught it on BBCi. Basically it's not worth watching these days as it's so badly dumbed down. Soon they'll be able to cancel it.

[J10]

A Pretty good Countryfile forecast today, good use of pressure charts with viewable fronts. Pity Friday wasn't shown, but overall better than many before the changeover.

The weather looks good too.

[johnholmes]

hi

Its quite amazing reading the last 2 posts. One highly critical, although he admitted he had not actually seen it. Then one who had, and was quite positive about it.

In my view, for what its worth, its getting better, there are things we all want improved. The main one for me is more use of surface charts with fronts on(but I am an ex forecaster so that viewpoint may not be really representative), and a better presentation of wind speed and direction.

I do hope Micro you are still around and feeding any positive feedback back into the BBC. The positive should have been in capitals but its not very popular with people on the web.

regards

John

[Microburst]

hi

Its quite amazing reading the last 2 posts. One highly critical, although he admitted he had not actually seen it. Then one who had, and was quite positive about it.

In my view, for what its worth, its getting better, there are things we all want improved. The main one for me is more use of surface charts with fronts on(but I am an ex forecaster so that viewpoint may not be really representative), and a better presentation of wind speed and direction.

I do hope Micro you are still around and feeding any positive feedback back into the BBC. The positive should have been in capitals but its not very popular with people on the web.

regards

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello John,

Yes I'm still around and just about to leave for home after the late shift. I am still keeping a 'weather eye' on this thread and will respond where necessary. I will pass on anything of interest and pass over anything not.

There have been some improvements recently and there are a few more to come. I think you will notice synoptics starting to make more regular appearances in forecasts now.

I am happy to try to help where I can.

MB

[Microburst]

Glad I missed it.

Caught it on BBCi. Basically it's not worth watching these days as it's so badly dumbed down. Soon they'll be able to cancel it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is there no pleasing some people, I thought Liz Saary did a good forecast today!

[Weather-history]

A Pretty good Countryfile forecast today, good use of pressure charts with viewable fronts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good use of pressure charts? Not a patch on the old ones.

[Microburst]

Another poor Countryfile forecast, no mention of Friday and no synoptics during the week to give a guide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Were you watching BBC1 @ 11.49 for 3 minutes today?

[Weather-history]

Were you watching BBC1 @ 11.49 for 3 minutes today?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did

[Terminal Moraine]

The Countryfile forecast did show some improvement on that for the first week after the change. There was one pressure chart, including fronts which is better than none at all.

Overall, not as good as the forecast used to be when pressure charts were run for the whole week but better than a couple of weeks ago.

I noticed, however, that even before the new graphics, there had been a decline in the use of pressure charts. Quite often there would be a chart shows for the first couple of days of the forthcoming week but the rest of the week would be a map with symbols.

It would be much better to run the pressure map, with fronts, for the whole week and fill the rest of the forecast with the expected weather, using the graphics. This forecast was, and is, specifically oriented towards the farming/outdoor community who, in general, have a better understanding of 'complicated' issues like pressure charts; there is, therefore, no real reason for them to be abandoned or reduced.

T.M

[Microburst]

The Countryfile forecast did show some improvement on that for the first week after the change. There was one pressure chart, including fronts which is better than none at all.

Overall, not as good as the forecast used to be when pressure charts were run for the whole week but better than a couple of weeks ago.

I noticed, however, that even before the new graphics, there had been a decline in the use of pressure charts. Quite often there would be a chart shows for the first couple of days of the forthcoming week but the rest of the week would be a map with symbols.

It would be much better to run the pressure map, with fronts, for the whole week and fill the rest of the forecast with the expected weather, using the graphics. This forecast was, and is, specifically oriented towards the farming/outdoor community who, in general, have a better understanding of 'complicated' issues like pressure charts; there is, therefore, no real reason for them to be abandoned or reduced.

T.M

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello TM

Pressure charts were phased because the majority of the general public who have only a passing interest in whether it's going to be wet or dry, sunny or cloudy found them too confusing. Pressure charts are fine for professional and amateur meteorolgists alike, but ( and we go back to this market research thing again) reearch showed the majority of the public found them confusing and did not know what a millibar was. Also the wind speed numbers were confused with temps and so on and so forth.

I think you will find that in specialist forecasts ie country file, ski forecasts etc there will be a lot more technical information available where time permits.

I think pressure charts will be used more in daily forecasts to tell of an important story like impending bad storm for example.

I take your points and will pass them on tomorrow.

MB

[Paul]

The problem with using market research/statistics to make decisions imo is you can view them from any angle you like. For instance, the BBC found that a majority of people didn't understand the pressure charts etc, so they decided to cut them right down. On another day, they could have looked at that and decided they needed to show them more and explain them better to give people more of an understanding. So effectively the same research could lead you to 2 different decisions.

It's just a shame that the choice of catering for the lowest common denominator seems to be the favoured thing to do on tv at the moment. In the BBC's defence though, they are listening to feedback, which for an organisation of the size of the BBC is pretty impressive

[johnholmes]

thanks MB

like I said, please do take note of the +ve feedback, and we are grateful for your promise to do that.

regards

John

[Microburst]

The problem with using market research/statistics to make decisions imo is you can view them from any angle you like. For instance,  the BBC found that a majority of people didn't understand the pressure charts etc, so they decided to cut them right down. On another day, they could have looked at that and decided they needed to show them more and explain them better to give people more of an understanding. So effectively the same research could lead you to 2 different decisions.

It's just a shame that the choice of catering for the lowest common denominator seems to be the favoured thing to do on tv at the moment. In the BBC's defence though, they are listening to feedback, which for an organisation of the size of the BBC is pretty impressive

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Paul,

How else does the BBC gleen information to make it's programme decisions, without market research?

I see both your points but the point of a weather bulletin in two minutes is not to so much to 'educate' but to inform of the basic weather story.

There are discussions muted about The Weather Show possibly making a comeback - any thoughts?

[Thundery wintry showers]

The problem with using market research/statistics to make decisions imo is you can view them from any angle you like. For instance, the BBC found that a majority of people didn't understand the pressure charts etc, so they decided to cut them right down. On another day, they could have looked at that and decided they needed to show them more and explain them better to give people more of an understanding. So effectively the same research could lead you to 2 different decisions.

It's just a shame that the choice of catering for the lowest common denominator seems to be the favoured thing to do on tv at the moment. In the BBC's defence though, they are listening to feedback, which for an organisation of the size of the BBC is pretty impressive

I agree with that. Another factor in statistics is that sometimes they can be manipulated how you like. For instance, earlier in this thread it was pointed out that "7 in 10 people preferred the new system or liked it as much as the old one" could in reality mean "3 in 10 thought they were worse, 1 in 10 thought they were better, and 6 in 10 couldn't care less", for all anyone knows. A similar thing could have applied with these pressure chart statistics. That doesn't mean it did, but the possibility is there.

[Microburst]

The problem with using market research/statistics to make decisions imo is you can view them from any angle you like. For instance, the BBC found that a majority of people didn't understand the pressure charts etc, so they decided to cut them right down. On another day, they could have looked at that and decided they needed to show them more and explain them better to give people more of an understanding. So effectively the same research could lead you to 2 different decisions.

It's just a shame that the choice of catering for the lowest common denominator seems to be the favoured thing to do on tv at the moment. In the BBC's defence though, they are listening to feedback, which for an organisation of the size of the BBC is pretty impressive

I agree with that. Another factor in statistics is that sometimes they can be manipulated how you like. For instance, earlier in this thread it was pointed out that "7 in 10 people preferred the new system or liked it as much as the old one" could in reality mean "3 in 10 thought they were worse, 1 in 10 thought they were better, and 6 in 10 couldn't care less", for all anyone knows. A similar thing could have applied with these pressure chart statistics. That doesn't mean it did, but the possibility is there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All allegedly of course!

[Terminal Moraine]

Hello TM

Pressure charts were phased because the majority of the general public who have only a passing interest in whether it's going to be wet or dry, sunny or cloudy found them too confusing. Pressure charts are fine for professional and amateur meteorolgists alike, but ( and we go back to this market research thing again) reearch showed the majority of the public found them confusing and did not know what a millibar was. Also the wind speed numbers were confused with temps and so on and so forth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Evening M.B.

I think the problem regarding the general public not understanding pressure charts/millibars/wind speeds etc is not so much one of not understanding as one of not paying enough/any attention to what the forecaster is saying.

As an amateur meteorologist I've had a good deal of personal experience whereby friends, colleagues and acquaintances comment on the current weather relative to what they perceived the forecast to have said. Invariably their perception of the forecast bears little relation to what was actually said. People will pick up on one or two words or phrases such as 'wet' 'gales', 'snow' etc and relate it to their own area irrespective of whether it was the forecast for the Highlands of Scotland or Cornwall, they then complain/seem surprised when the actual weather in their area differs radically from the 'forecast'

I've sat in the same room as half a dozen people watching the same forecast only to get four differing interpretations at the end of it, mainly because they weren't really paying attention but were chatting and picking up the occasional word which was then recited as the forecast.

No amount of dumbing down will reach the people who aren't really interested in the first place, they will continue to mis-interpret the graphics in the same way they mis-interpret symbols, charts or any other parameter.

By using charts, fronts, millibars, wind speeds etc the BBC are not pandering to the meteorological obsessives, they are providing useful information to a large proportion of the population who have a basic interest in the weather, where it comes from and how it happens but who do not wish to own their own weather station or know about adiabatic lapse rates.

If this satisfys the obsessives too, then all well and good. The current system, although improving slightly, is failing everyone. The people who don't care about, or pay any attention to, the forecasts will never understand irrespective of how dumbed down they become. The greater proportion of the population who do take a passing interest are losing the opportunity of greater understanding and the obsessives are treated to a forecast to which the literary equivalent would be 'Peter and Jane'.

T.M

[Microburst]

Evening M.B.

I think the problem regarding the general public not understanding pressure charts/millibars/wind speeds etc is not so much one of not understanding as one of not paying enough/any attention to what the forecaster is saying.

As an amateur meteorologist I've had a good deal of personal experience whereby friends, colleagues and acquaintances comment on the current weather relative to what they perceived the forecast to have said.  Invariably their perception of the forecast bears little relation to what was actually said. People will pick up on one or two words or phrases such as 'wet' 'gales', 'snow' etc and relate it to their own area irrespective of whether it was the forecast for the Highlands of Scotland or Cornwall, they then complain/seem surprised when the actual weather in their area differs radically from the 'forecast'

I've sat in the same room as half a dozen people watching the same forecast only to get four differing interpretations at the end of it, mainly because they weren't really paying attention but were chatting and picking up the occasional word which was then recited as the forecast.

No amount of dumbing down will reach the people who aren't really interested in the first place, they will continue to mis-interpret the graphics in the same way they mis-interpret symbols, charts or any other parameter.

By using charts, fronts, millibars, wind speeds etc the BBC are not pandering to the meteorological obsessives, they are providing useful information to a large proportion of the population who have a basic interest in the weather, where it comes from and how it happens but who do not wish to own their own weather station or know about adiabatic lapse rates.

If this satisfys the obsessives too, then all well and good. The current system, although improving slightly, is failing everyone. The people who don't care about, or pay any attention to, the forecasts will never understand irrespective of how dumbed down they become. The greater proportion of the population who do take a passing interest are losing the opportunity of greater understanding and the obsessives are treated to a forecast to which  the literary equivalent would be  'Peter and Jane'.

T.M

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that TM - I will comment and pass this on to weather tomorrow. Now I must head for home. No overtime here!! MB

[james990]

The new graphics have undoubtedly improved and I am getting very much more used to them now. My only real problem with the new graphics now is the lack of pressure charts and fronts on the weather forecasts (excluding countryfile).

[shuggee]

I have to say that tnoight's main forcast at around 7pm was well done by Alex Deakin. The zoom-in on Eastern england was excellent - even the silly meaningless wind arrows were telling a story; together with temperature shading showing how the temp rises away from the east coast. If this sort of standard can be maintained and built upon over the coming weeks - as things develop and the graphics are tweeked, then it's going to ok imho.

One thing - lots of talk int he week about heavy thunderstorms - but then no representation of thorms on the maps; simply rain. It's like launching the system in November, and forgetting to invent a representation for snow. OOOOOoops; this needs urgent attention.

[Paul]

Hi Paul,

How else does the BBC gleen information to make it's programme decisions,  without market research?

I see both your points but the point of a weather bulletin in two minutes is not to so much to 'educate' but to inform of the basic weather story.

There are discussions muted about The Weather Show possibly making a comeback - any thoughts?

I do agree with you, how else do you find out what people are thinking unless you research. I just think/know that all too often reasearch is used to justify a decision that has already been made rather than to aid in the making of that decision. The massive problem with any form of research is that you can effectively weight it to show what you want. I'm not suggesting that the BBC has done this, but I must admit I do wonder!

As for the weather show coming back, I'm sure it would be popular, but perhaps a BBC2 popular rather than a BBC1...

[johnholmes]

Hi Paul,

How else does the BBC gleen information to make it's programme decisions,  without market research?

I see both your points but the point of a weather bulletin in two minutes is not to so much to 'educate' but to inform of the basic weather story.

There are discussions muted about The Weather Show possibly making a comeback - any thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

re your comment about the weather show.

IF and its a big IF(excuse the capitals) it was made at a level of assumption that the people who watched wanted to know and find out more about the weather then fine. If its another Mirror/Sun idea then it would be a waste of the licence fee.

regards

John

[J10]

Good use of pressure charts? Not a patch on the old ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought there was a good use of pressure charts, and matched some of the forecasts before the change, certainly the best forecast since then.

RE TM the number of people who misunderstood weather forecasts before the change was amazing, they completely got the wrong end of the stick.

The new forecasts are growing on me, and in certain circumstances give a better understanding of the likely weather certainly in the next 24 hours. Past this time period any benefit does not apply.

I am quite surprised at the emotion on show here, we do care about weather forecasts, perhaps that could be passed on to the BBC.

[kold weather]

a fairly good use of isobars today from Peter Cockrofft(or however you spell his name!)with showing firstly where the high is centered now,then running the sequance with the weather sequance run with it showing how the cloud fades as the high moves south and gets stronger.

They could educate abit more i suppose but I'm sure they will explain the best they can in laymans terms when the time comes for it,and i'm with you Jackone,I've never hated these graphics,just thought they needed a tweak or two and its certainly growing on me now I'm getting used to them more.

Edited June 6, 2005 by kold weather

[The PIT]

Well they showed frost as blue any quick look and people will think it's rain.

Need to think of a different way of showing this to aviod confusion.

Wind arrows still need a speed otherwise fairly useless.