New Bbc Graphics

[Andy Bown]

It was an interesting interview with the guy in charge (can't remember name) and also Peter Gibbs.

He presented it well, but you could also tell his honest 'I'm getting used to this myself' thoughts in his presentation.

Was good to see a pressure chart movement for the week (minus fronts ), but it would have been nice to see evidence of the warm Southerly winds that he talked about for Friday.

[Microburst]

Thought you might like a link to a questions and answer session Helen Willetts did last Friday morning on BBC Breakfast on the BBC weather graphics.

You will need a media player to watch the interview.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast/4563935.stm

MB

[Kent Snow]

Thanks Microburst for that link.

Missed it on Friday due to work commitments but thought after watching that, Helen came across fairly well on the questions raised.

[Terminal Moraine]

I've just watched the Countryfile forecast, having recorded it while at work.

As stated above by several people, it was good to see a pressure chart at the start of the forecast but disappointing that there were no fronts on it and that it comprised only a very small proportion of the forecast.

Overall I'd say that the amount of time devoted to the Countryfile forecast would be about right for the main forecasts each day after the 1300, 1800 and 2200 news bulletins; this would allow a look at the synoptic chart, the rainfall radar and, if there's no going back, a helping of the glossy graphics.

The Countryfile forecast could do with being at least 90 seconds longer.

The pressure chart should show the forecast position of fronts and pressure systems for each day and the graphics used after that to complement the basic forecast.

There's still no escaping the fact that the perspective on the map of the British Isles makes it almost impossible to, for example, view the edge of rain areas north of about Birmingham and the forecast has a rushed feel as the 'camera' swoops over the country at a pace too rapid to allow information to be absorbed.

T.M

Edited May 22, 2005 by Terminal Moraine

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

You know. I've actually been quite pleased with the new graphics, as I said before. For me, living near Derby, and using the old graphics, I found it hard to understand which of the symbols were for this area.

Now I can see more clearly what is forecast to happen. And if i'm honest, for here, the BBC were quite accurate today, for todays forecast.

The one gripe I suppose I have is the colour of the map. This has lead to one or two of the main problems being discussed (i.e. cloud cover). For me, it is also, and really more so, the wind arrows. Very hard to see.

Perhaps if they changed the colour of the map, or used more conflicting colours for cloud cover and wind direction, they may get rid of alot of problems/critical comments.

[Microburst]

I've just watched the Countryfile forecast, having recorded it while at work.

As stated above by several people, it was good to see a pressure chart at the start of the forecast but disappointing that there were no fronts on it and that it comprised only a very small proportion of the forecast.

Overall I'd say that the amount of time devoted to the Countryfile forecast would be about right for the main forecasts each day after the 1300, 1800 and 2200 news bulletins; this would allow a look at the synoptic chart, the rainfall radar and, if there's no going back, a helping of the glossy graphics.

The Countryfile forecast could do with being at least 90 seconds longer.

The pressure chart should show the forecast position of fronts and pressure systems for each day and the graphics used after that to complement the basic forecast.

There's still no escaping the fact that the perspective on the map of the British Isles makes it almost impossible to, for example, view the edge of rain areas north of about Birmingham and the forecast has a rushed feel as the 'camera' swoops over the country at a pace too rapid to allow information to be absorbed.

T.M

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the subject of timings, I should point out that most if not all of BBC1s output is broadcast pre-programmed by computer where all timings are to the second. You may have noticed the weather broadcast is faded sometimes before the presenter has finished. This is due to overrun and a computer fades and cuts into the next item. The whole process should be watched over by the network director and his team who oversee smooth segways into items. Oh digital technology!!!

It is most unlikely that extra time will be added to weather bulletins after the news in the near future.

It is possible weather broadcasts maybe at different times tomorrow because of the BBC industrial action.

[The PIT]

Yes it does look like we'll be stuck with the poor graphics until the next upgrade.

Due tot he industrial action switched over to ITV and low and behold a forecast that was easy to understand. Needless to say it was 2d and even picked up our morning sunshine. According the beeb it was cloudy unless Sheffield had moved to the east coast.

[Great Plum]

Just like 'The Pit' I switched to ITV - their charts showed, fronts, isobars and I could tell what was going on in my part of the world today. Watching the BBC forecast, I couldn't tell if we were going to be sunny all day or if the rain around Brighton and Reading means 'sunshine and showers'

[Andy Bown]

Just thought I'd add this in here for a light hearted 'I think Mr Fox needs to be more fantastic with his maths'

Spot the error, text below copied and pasted from the monthly forecast...

"June brings us the summer solstice, so no surprises it averages the highest sunshine amounts of any month of the year as it sees the longest days. Despite the solstice actually giving around 13 hours of daylight however, most of us can only expect to average seven hours of sunshine on a typical June day."

....

....

....

....

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.... I thought in mid June there were about 18 hours of daylight

[Stratos Ferric]

The BBC are certainly having to man the barricades on this one, far more, I suspect, than they expected.

The comments on CF on Sunday were, I thought, reasonably fair, and seeing a prolonged forecast for the first time with the new gadgetry gave a better impression: the animated synoptics work well, though would have been better slowed I thought.

Friday's piece on Breakfast News toed the same line, though Bill Turnbull's reading of one e-mail made precisly the point that I was raising previously: the correspondent said something like "I can now see exactly where it's going to rain"...this is akin to believing a rail timetable printed with times to the nearest second. Ability to present and calculate data to the "n'th" decimal places does not mean that the data is robust to the presented level of accuracy. As Nick Finnis ponders and states, on the previous page, the margin between blue slodges on the predictive rain sequence can no more accurately be calculated in reality than can the boundary between two of the old style symbols be interpolated. At least the previous style did not overstate the accuracy.

The other advantages of the previous presentation were that I could look at my own part of the country and "filter out" the forecasters words as I chose. Now I am forced to look at the "zoomed in" areas because much else is out of shot. Instead of an old style forecast in which I could spend 2 minutes looking at my part of the world, I now have, after all the "flying" up and down the country, about a third of this time.

Brown / orange / yellow background we just have to live with so long as blue is used for rain as this gives greatest contrast in presentation.

Interesting to see that the summary chart on the web still uses the old symbols: that explains what they did with them...nothing if not environmentally friendly, if one can be so in a "virtual" sense.

[Optimus Prime]

I've joined the club and also complained.

Not like me at all!

[Thundery wintry showers]

One or two signs that the BBC may be listening- they've re-introduced Atlantic pressure charts on their website.

[A Gower Guy]

The weather map on BBC Wales Today is green unlike the light brown on the national, thought I saw the difference last week, but wasn't sure

[The PIT]

Wind graphics are rubbish. Come on give us some speeds. I think people can understand 30 mph.

[Somerset Squall]

Just thought I'd add this in here for a light hearted 'I think Mr Fox needs to be more fantastic with his maths'

Spot the error, text below copied and pasted from the monthly forecast...

"June brings us the summer solstice, so no surprises it averages the highest sunshine amounts of any month of the year as it sees the longest days. Despite the solstice actually giving around 13 hours of daylight however, most of us can only expect to average seven hours of sunshine on a typical June day."

....

....

....

....

....

.... I thought in mid June there were about 18 hours of daylight

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Must of left writing the forecast to the last minute again while travelling to work.

[Somerset Squall]

Wind graphics are rubbish. Come on give us some speeds. I think people can understand 30 mph.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I hate the wind graphics, they only give indication of wind direction really, and what use is that if a storm is approaching?

[WBSH]

Yeah, I hate the wind graphics, they only give indication of wind direction really, and what use is that if a storm is approaching?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well its obvious the Beeb are catering for the lowest of lower-class. "They won't understand wind speeds are represented by bigger arrows so lets not have them at all" and "the general public wont know what weather fronts are, so lets ditch that as well!".

Infact instead of making Britian brown like we have just done lets change the colour of our islands to a nice wollipop wainbow colour that everyone can enjoy...

WBSH

[Microburst]

UPDATE!

For all those of you who think the BBC don't listen to public opinion, I thought you might be interested in this press release. MB

Those protesting that the BBC's £1m revamp of its weather forecasts is biased against Scotland saw a chink of light through the clouds yesterday, as the corporation admitted it was re-examining elements of its hi-tech approach.

As interest in the weather warms up with forecasters predicting a heatwave on Friday and over the weekend, the BBC has bowed to pressure from viewers, MPs and former presenters to take another look at its new forecasts.

Following an early day motion in parliament and questions in the House of Lords, the BBC yesterday confirmed it was looking at "retilting" the 3D map so that Scotland got a fairer showing.

It had previously argued that the 3D effect, with the camera swooping in on specific areas, meant that the new forecasts were not biased against the north.

The BBC has been deluged with complaints since relaunching its weather forecasts, doing away with the familiar cloud and sun symbols in favour of 3D computer graphics designed to make them less "boring and old fashioned".

But hundreds of viewers have complained that the new forecasts are more difficult to follow and that the shifting brown patterns designed to denote cloud cover look "drab" and "dull".

In doing away with familiar wind speeds and isobars, some have also complained that the new broadcasts actually contain less useful information.

The most vociferous protests have come from those north of the border, who complain that the perspective of the map is biased in favour of the south.

"It is unacceptable that the perspective given to these new maps means that the whole of the north of England is given the same prominence and detail as a couple of southern counties," Liberal Democrat peer Lord Greaves has complained. "Also, the BBC weather centre appears to regard Scotland as a far away country about which we know little."

The BBC said the system, which it bought from the New Zealand Met Office, was the biggest change to its weather in 20 years and would take time to bed in. It also pointed to new audience research showing that seven in 10 viewers either preferred the new forecasts or liked them as much as the old ones.

"That said, we welcome the comments from the House of Lords and recognise that there have been viewers who have raised concerns about the system," said a spokesman.

"We are continuing to monitor feedback and if there are opportunities to improve aspects of the system - such as the perspective - we will examine these carefully."

The corporation's embarrassment was compounded when ITV News executive Michael Jeremy revealed in the Guardian that the broadcaster passed up the chance to use the 3D system when it relaunched its own forecasts earlier this year.

"ITV avoided devices that are, perhaps, more appealing to television producers than to viewers who simply want to know what to wear tomorrow," he wrote.

[icy toes]

"...seven in 10 viewers either preferred the new forecasts or liked them as much as the old ones"

yeah, right. I don't think I've seen a positive comment about them yet!

[Karl]

to be fair - the bbc checking with it's audience will be targetting a different demographic than the people on here.

weather enthusiasts (more likely to be found here) will be less likely to like the new forecasts.

personally i think they're awful

[Microburst]

"...seven in 10 viewers either preferred the new forecasts or liked them as much as the old ones"

yeah, right. I don't think I've seen a positive comment about them yet!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be fair - there has been a considerable amount of praise for the new graphics as well as critiscism.

I would say 60/40 for and against. I have seen the stats in the office.

[A Gower Guy]

I'm really starting to like the new graphics (esp the Wales forecasts which shows the sunny/clear in a light green), great detail over the last few days aswell <_<

[Summer of 76]

To be fair - there has been a considerable amount of praise for the new graphics as well as critiscism.

I would say 60/40 for and against. I have seen the stats in the office.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MB, can you say where these stats come from, within the BBC or external

Thanks

[Thundery wintry showers]

I'm rather sceptical. If a group carries out a survey and wants a particular response, they can cleverly word their questions in order to get it.

For instance, a council that wanted hundreds of speed humps installed asked, in a survey, "Do you want measures to help reduce accidents in built up areas?" The people who vote yes are then counted under those saying yes to hundreds of speed humps, and the statistics skewed accordingly.

Bear in mind that many people don't watch TV forecasts (quite possibly the majority) and therefore couldn't care less about TV graphics and forecast changes. They wouldn't give a negative response, so they'd be within that 7 in 10.

Even if 7 in 10 people were okay or in favour- who's to say that it can't be that 1 in 10 are happy, 6 in 10 undecided and 3 in 10 unhappy? And was the selection really representative, and were those who didn't speak out counted within the 7 in 10?

I may get stick for saying this, but I just don't trust survey statistics. Of the people around me and that I know of who take any interest in the forecasts (including people with minimal interest in weather), the disapproval rate is at least 7 in 10, but on the other hand, there are many others who don't even watch them.

[Great Plum]

I'd like to see the stats and the questions the BBC asked...

I still cannot understand when there will be sunshine and showers with the new system!