New Bbc Graphics

[Thundery wintry showers]

Not for the first time in these threads, I find myself in full agreement with JACKONE.

[Guest Phil_Uk]

Have been awake at around 5.am the past couple of mornings and when listening to Radio Five Live, the likes of Dan Corbett and Everton Fox have been 'Put on the spot' so's to speak by the presenters as regarding public and press opinion since the launch and they have been a bit "Erm, er, ah!" as regarding opinions.

I don't blame the weather presenters at all. They have a job to do, but it's behind the scenes, graphic designers (especially!) and those who are also in some way responsible for the shenanigans that have gone on of late. Same as I couldn't blame Sir Michael Fish for his under-estimation of the 'Hurricane' that struck in October 1987. Things can change at the drop of a hat.

The morning of 1st May for example this year. Where a fair few of us were being treated to an IC lightning display that sounded brilliant (And I slept through it all! ) I decided upon an early night, checked the radar before bed at about 10.pm the previous Saturday evening (when it was a readable radar on the website! B) ) and looked pretty quiet, then next morning, my Brother said "Did you see the lightning last night?"

Boy was I pished off for missing what he said was like a firework display for about 40 minutes. (You wait 12 years for a night lightning scene, then sleep through it! The git didn't even wake me!)

Actually! I've had an idea. Seeing as it's an automated E-mail response . I'm going to attempt appraisal instead and see what response I get (If any!) and will post it in this very thread.

Should be interesting.

Phil.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I don't blame the weather presenters at all. They have a job to do, but it's behind the scenes, graphic designers (especially!) and those who are also in some way responsible for the shenanigans that have gone on of late. Same as I couldn't blame Sir Michael Fish for his under-estimation of the 'Hurricane' that struck in October 1987. Things can change at the drop of a hat.

Neither do I. The weather forecasters probably had very little say in all of this- they may have just had to work with what they were given. After all, Michael Fish was probably working with MetO data that underestimated the storm force winds, and it's pretty well known on here, for example, that some of the forecasters who act as if they hate snow, actually like it, but they could get sued by businesses etc. if they showed their true colours...

[Microburst]

We (some of my BBC colleagues) and I have just been looking at the posts about the new weather graphics on this website today.

Why are you all being so negative? It's very strange. There is plenty on this new system to be positive about although you probably haven't seen it yet. OK then you will just have to be patient.

Just because the 'status quo' has been rocked a bit, from the way some of you react it's like the bottom has fallen out of your world! These are weather graphics we are talking about. Expensive weather graphics that need time to bed down like any good rose before it blossoms. Sorry to talk cliches, but I'm sure you will understand.

With regard to Andy Lane's letter it is self explanatory and was sent out to many people as a polite reply. The BBC has not the rescources to allow one person write individual letters on this scale.

The points that have been made by callers and e-mailers to the BBC have been passed on to the MO and BBC Weather management. They are very aware that a proportion of the general public have a dislike for the change in service. However the new graphics are here to stay and changes will no doubt be made in time as and where necessary.

Yes, there are now more live weather inserts in to News 24 daily and yes, sorry but duplication meant the loss of the 1855 national weather bulletin. There is now one weather broadcast at 1827 Mon - Fri, lasting for about 2 minutes.

No one ever claims to get things right all of the time and I dare say the same goes for some of the contributors to this board. Lets just give change a chance. The old graphics I'm sorry to say are now history.

MB

[Guest Phil_Uk]

So, in short.....

Put up and shut up!

I think that is the thesis I am gathering?

Licence payers, OAPs who rely on what the weather entails daily without literally having to get inside the TV screen to see what the daily forecast will be?

Sorry. I expected this! BBC attitude!

As per usual!

[Microburst]

So, in short.....

Put up and shut up!

I think that is the thesis I am gathering?

Licence payers, OAPs who rely on what the weather entails daily without literally having to get inside the TV screen to see what the daily forecast will be?

Sorry. I expected this! BBC attitude!

As per usual!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You Sir, are entitled to your opinion. When people have finished throwing all their toys out of the pram then we can have some sensible discussion.

No one clains the BBC is perfect. I don't claim to be either but at least I try to be objective and positive.

[johnholmes]

We (some of my BBC colleagues) and I have just been looking at the posts about the new weather graphics on this website today.

Why are you all being so negative? It's very strange. There is plenty on this new system to be positive about although you probably haven't seen it yet. OK then you will just have to be patient.

Just because the 'status quo' has been rocked a bit, from the way some of you react it's like the bottom has fallen out of your world!  These are weather graphics we are talking about. Expensive weather graphics that need time to bed down like any good rose before it blossoms.  Sorry to talk cliches, but I'm sure you will understand.

With regard to Andy Lane's letter it is self explanatory and was sent out to many people as a polite reply.  The BBC has not the rescources to allow one person write individual letters on this scale. 

The points that have been made by callers and e-mailers to the BBC have been passed on to the MO and BBC Weather management. They are very aware that a proportion of the general public have a dislike for the change in service. However the new graphics are here to stay and changes will no doubt be made in time as and where necessary.

Yes, there are now more live weather inserts in to News 24 daily and yes, sorry but duplication meant the loss of the 1855 national weather bulletin. There is now one weather broadcast at 1827 Mon - Fri, lasting for about 2 minutes.

No one ever claims to get things right all of the time and I dare say the same goes for some of the contributors to this board. Lets just give change a chance. The old graphics I'm sorry to say are now history.

MB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi Microburst

May I ask what you think of my comment regarding the time factor and the amount of data anyone can assimilate please?

Equally because the overwhelming comments on this web site, your own, and any other that you want to look at, are overwhelmingly against the change does not give you the right to make the response you did, in my view.

Yes, there has been, maybe 8-10 comments on here that would have been better if they had not been made but the vast majority have posted with their consructive comments, mine included. In my first post I said, give it time, but there are as number of glaring errors on the graphics. Why not say openly yes, they are here to stay but we do need to change some things, and we are taking notice of what is said. Not just giveing the bland response about, 'it will take time to settle dow'. I only reluctantly got involved in this, because of my background, but please M do try and give us some positive comments to those posts that deserve the reply please.

regards

John

[snow raven]

We (some of my BBC colleagues) and I have just been looking at the posts about the new weather graphics on this website today.

Why are you all being so negative? It's very strange. There is plenty on this new system to be positive about although you probably haven't seen it yet. OK then you will just have to be patient.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Microburst,

As those at the BBC probably know, its not just the majority of us on NW that aren't happy with just how much the BBC has changed their weather graphics, but around 95% of those who have written into the BBC to complain. Yes, we are a nation of moaners, but surely the fact that the complaints have made news headlines (both on TV and in National newspapers) says that the vast majority of the UK public aren't happy with it.

And, if the vast majority of us on NW who have a very good understanding of weather aren't happy with it, surely you must see why a lot of people in the UK are having difficulties with the lack of weather symbols etc. I know having a sun/cloud/rain symbol isnt the be all and end all of weather, but for most of the UK public thats all they want to see.

However, I havent written it totally off and switched to the ITV channel to see the weather - I await the tweeks to the BBC weather forecast to see if there is an improvement.

SR

[Guest Phil_Uk]

I find it amazing how suddenly things have turned on its head.

I've already said on this, and another thread, my own weather forum as well as to what I think. Why the automated E-mails? I was right as in expecting such negative powers-that-be reaction to the new format wasn't I?

What about the BBC website "Have your say" forum? Have all comments really been looked at and considered, as if to say "Well, perhaps the majority are right!"

Rather than the, "Like it or lump it!" attitude?

I'm curious as to who were 'asked' were where it comes to the change of weather graphics. Certainly wasn't me, and I've had a keen interest in weather for the last 28 years!

What should happen if we have to stick with this current setup IMO is.....

Give the presenters about 4 minutes, that being one minute each for West, East, North and South of the UK each. Drop the damn BBC trailers. I get the Radio Times every other week so I know what programme will be coming next, should I decide to watch. Freedom of choice after all!

Put counties in the RIGHT place instead of sticking Hereford in Wales. And re-instate Birmingham.

In short, be objective and positive. That's what we want to see but don't go nit-picking at me! I'm most likely speaking for the majority. (Although I wasn't even represented! )

Phil.

[Microburst]

hi Microburst

May I ask what you think of my comment regarding the time factor and the amount of data anyone can assimilate please?

Equally because the overwhelming comments on this web site, your own, and any other that you want to look at, are overwhelmingly against the change does not give you the right to make the response you did, in my view.

Yes, there has been, maybe 8-10 comments on here that would have been better if they had not been made but the vast majority have posted with their consructive comments, mine included. In my first post I said, give it time, but there are as number of glaring errors on the graphics. Why not say openly yes, they are here to stay but we do need to change some things, and we are taking notice of what is said. Not just giveing the bland response about, 'it will take time to settle dow'. I only reluctantly got involved in this, because of my background, but please M do try and give us some positive comments to those posts that deserve the reply please.

regards

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John,

I am sorry but I feel unable to comment any further for the time being, be it timescales or data.

Yes, there have been a lot of good points made in the past 3 days but equally a lot of silly sarcastic swipes at the BBC which I feel obliged to defend to a degree.

I understand there are a lot of people who do not like the change, but we have to be realistic.

I am more than happy to take constructive points made on here to those who matter in the BBC if I can and to give response where I am able, but I see no point in 'point scoring' with people on here.

MB

[J10]

On the regional forecast, there were wind arrows and pressure charts, and to be honest the new pressure charts look pretty good.

The potential is there in the system, so why isn't it being used.

I honestly think that we will see a major difference in the quality of the forecasts between different presenters.

If we had a long say 4 minute forecast, I think the new system would give much better forecasts than before, but it simply doesn't work for a one minute or under forecast.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Today I saw the 1850 forecast on BBC Wales - and to be honest found the detail on the new system much better than the old.

Minutes later, I switched over to the 1855 forecast on BBC News 24, personally I think the first day, was well represented but the second and following days, would IMO better better served by a symbol. I also think there has a noticeable improvement in the forecasts since Monday.

However one thing is crystal clear, for this new system to work, we need longer forecasts.

[Microburst]

Hi Microburst,

As those at the BBC probably know, its not just the majority of us on NW that aren't happy with just how much the BBC has changed their weather graphics, but around 95% of those who have written into the BBC to complain.  Yes, we are a nation of moaners, but surely the fact that the complaints have made news headlines (both on TV and in National newspapers) says that the vast majority of the UK public aren't happy with it.

And, if the vast majority of us on NW who have a very good understanding of weather aren't happy with it, surely you must see why a lot of people in the UK are having difficulties with the lack of weather symbols etc. I know having a sun/cloud/rain symbol isnt the be all and end all of weather, but for most of the UK public thats all they want to see. 

However, I havent written it totally off and switched to the ITV channel to see the weather - I await the tweeks to the BBC weather forecast to see if there is an improvement.

SR 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Snow Raven,

I completely understand what you are saying and have noted.Yes, even though it may not appear so, people at the BBC are VERY aware of the unhappiness the new graphics have caused. I can assure you there are teams looking into this now so please be patient and I am sure things will improve.

If I learn anything new to pass on I will post it here

MB

[snow raven]

Hi Snow Raven,

I completely understand what you are saying and have noted.Yes, even though it may not appear so, people at the BBC are VERY aware of the unhappiness the new graphics have caused. I can assure you there are teams looking into this now so please be patient and I am sure things will improve.

If I learn anything new to pass on I will post it here

MB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Microburst, much appreciated

[Guest Phil_Uk]

I'd better add for the record that I'm not having a go at you personally, Microburst.

But some lessons do need to be learnt in graphic design which I am gaining experience with day by day. And I think that the old flat UK map design would serve better, even if in the ranks of the ITV forecasts. Animated clouds, be they overcast for white/grey, Black cloud and persistent rain/thunder/snow symbols in the more localised areas where likely. You get the idea.

Especially at a huge cost which . There should have been more thinking and more public opinion. The 3D maps are not working as yet. I daresay they will for a while as yet until more major tweaking is done.

Phil.

[Microburst]

I'd better add for the record that I'm not having a go at you personally, Microburst.

But some lessons do need to be learnt in graphic design which I am gaining experience with day by day. And I think that the old flat UK map design would serve better, even if in the ranks of the ITV forecasts. Animated clouds, be they overcast for white/grey, Black cloud and persistent rain/thunder/snow symbols in the more localised areas where likely. You get the idea.

Especially at a huge cost which . There should have been more thinking and more public opinion. The 3D maps are not working as yet. I daresay they will for a while as yet until more major tweaking is done.

Phil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offence taken Phil. I am sure things do need to be improved and looked at and I have noted what you say too. I will try to find out where the BBC research into this has come from probably out of house as the BBC do employ outside market research agencies to do this sort of stuff.

It will also be interesting to see if we get any weather bulletins at all on Monday ne3xt week when most of the BBC staff are on strike for 24 hours.

[Guest Phil_Uk]

I must have missed something!

Why the strike? In protest at job losses I can only assume?

(Hey, I'm not worldly-wise all of the time. Have projects of my own to be dealing with! )

Phil.

[Microburst]

I must have missed something!

Why the strike? In protest at job losses I can only assume?

(Hey, I'm not worldly-wise all of the time. Have projects of my own to be dealing with! )

Phil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a word, Yes! but lets not get political there. The politics surrounding the graphics are enough at the moment.

[Nabraxas]

I don't have much against the new graphics, only thing I don't like is that The Midlands and Lincolnshire no longer have a temperature symbol and that the online pollen forecast no longer has a 1 - 10 scale, personally I find the scale easier to understand than having lots of different coloured "!" signs across the screen.

[Guest Phil_Uk]

Nuff said mate. Sorry if I've spoken out of term. But I think the BBC hierarchy need to look in the mirror and say..... "Ok, what the public want, we shall provide!"

And not half-baked, half assed ideas that go nowhere, and are a magnet for public criticism.

Phil.

[Matty M]

I dont like the BBC's new weather graphics either but thats what you get

when the Met Office and BBC have free reign. Otherwise they'd listen to

you or i but as it stands they're a monopoly. Like it or loath until someone

with some meaty amount of cash takes on this organizaion were going to

have to live with second best.

[Terminal Moraine]

I sent the BBC a fairly lengthy e-mail concerning not only the shortcomings, or otherwise, of the new graphics but also ranging across topics such as the lack of time allocated to weather forecasts both on t.v and radio, the prioritising of programme advertising over the weather forecast and the lack of meteorological knowledge of weather presenters, as opposed to qualified forecasters.

The BBC replied with exactly the same e-mail as everyone else on here received.

The fundamental problem with the forecasts is not so much the new graphics but the lack of time allocated to the bulletin.

If the time devoted to programme advertising before and after the forecast were to be re-allocated to the forecast, it would enable the graphics to be used in conjunction with a synoptic chart and the rainfall radar. The forecaster would have enough time to explain the weather clearly and concisely for each area of the British Isles and there would also be enough time to a reasonable outlook to be included.

As the situation stands at present the new graphics are nothing more than glossy window dressing which cannot disguise the fact that the BBC place more emphasis on programme trailers than they do on the weather forecast.

We would expect this of the commercial channels, indeed we have become used to it.

The weather forecast is important public information and the BBC, as purveyors of public information, should be head and shoulders above the competition when presenting it. This is patently not the case and the situation is lamentable.

T.M

[Guest Phil_Uk]

It is exactly as I said intially TM.

If it isn't broke, why try to fix it?

Makes no sense to me at all. Trying to impress and score points over ITV is the ideal.

I'll Watch Lara Lewington on Channel 5 (Mmmmm! ) than the non-existent Birmingham, Sahara, BBC

Britain as of now!

Phil.

[i luv snow]

i think it was borke though- it was outdated and plain and boring- and i think an upgrade was needed, only a few people agree with me that the right one was made though.lol

[January Snowstorm]

Hi All.Just wanted to come out of my Summer hibernation to also add my disapproval to the new graphics.They are absolutely appalling and the outlook has been reduced to 4 Cities or something! If its not broke why change it!! The beeb are going backwards very fast!

[Thundery wintry showers]

Some excellent posts there- I have always greatly respected TM's contributions to this kind of topic, and JACKONE again stood out with his latest post.

Forecasts did used to have a longer allocation than they do now. I remember when I started watching the weather forecasts, my interest in weather was partly inspired by the BBC forecasts themselves. Between 1995 and 1999 I watched the BBC weather forecasts almost religiously, and regarded them as vastly superior to anything on any of the other channels. As, indeed, did most of the other people I knew.

No, it wasn't the graphics, before anyone starts. It was a fascination with synoptic charts and trying to increase understanding of them (which I progressively did, through watching forecasts), understanding what winds brought what weather and why, looking for patterns in weather type and temperature distribution across the country and combining it with the synoptics. I noticed a gradual decline in forecasts after around 2000, associated with a dumbing down and less and less time allocation, and correspondingly I lost a lot of my interest in them.

Yes, the graphics changes aren't the end of the world, they will take some getting used to but will be fine once they become accepted by the public. (with the exception of the much-criticised South England centric maps). The real problems, and that have been accelerated by changes in forecast allocation and presentation tied in with the new graphics, are the ones mentioned primarily by JACKONE, TM and John Holmes- and IMO they have been accelerated to unacceptable and off-putting levels.