BBC Weather Forecasts and Graphics Discussion

[Nick H]

Just heard on Five Live, that the Meto has instructed its forecasters to put a more positive emphasis into their forecasts - even when it snows!!!    

Any ideas guys???  

At least, it'll be mild!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I heard Everton Fox say this on the 6.30 forecast this morning. Instead of "partly cloudly", they must now say "partly sunny" There's an article in the Times apparently.

Always look on the bright side, eh?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4310702.stm

Edited October 5, 2005 by Nick H

[Nick H]

As well as moving away from scientific language, forecasters are being invited to avoid putting their own "spin" on the language they use.

Oh no does that mean the end of Dan Corbett's helpful advice?

I remember once on a wet and windy day he said "Probably the day for the umbrella - two hands on it as well" That made me chuckle all day.

[johnholmes]

see thread on BBC Graphics by Microburst at 0806.

Mods I suggest, respectfully, that you lock this thread, or transfer to BBC Graphics.

Its the same

regards

John

[johnholmes]

any Mod about to do it please?

John

[Andy Bown]

From Microburst's link....

Proposed guidelines also suggest that forecasters do not "over-dramatise" by focusing on bad weather if it is due in the middle of the night

...

.... That's amazing, so if there's to be a spell of severe gales racing through on a LOW pressure, say between 1am-4am, they'll not mention it then . Also isn't snow more likely in the night, not mention that either then, might be better just to wake up and find everything covered .

I don't think individuality should be lost. That's part of looking forward to the forecasts when not knowing who'll be presenting.

[TG312274]

Yeh definitely, with Rob McElwee if snow's a week away, he'll always give a hint and say "and things could get interesting by next week" leaving you on tenterhooks!

[acbrixton]

Sorry if that sounded unfair, it was said with a wry smile which didn't come across in my post. The summary at the start of the weather seems to me like wasted time; I should have added that into my post. The BBC forecast does seem to be a little dumbed down for the general public (but not as much as the ITV forecasts), I should have added that in my post too. I do appreciate that these people are extremely professional, knowledgable, etc., they wouldn't be in the job if they weren't. Sorry for any offence caused!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is also worth remembering that the BBC forecasters are under very considerable time pressures and have less time than they used to...blame the BBC not the forecasters

regards

ACB

[johnholmes]

absolutely right there pal, always has been the problem.

[The PIT]

Bad news today. I heard on the radio today that TV presenters have been asked to brighten up the Weather. So if they forecast showers they've got to remember that most people will not see them so they've got to say the Weather is going to be fairly good.

I shook my head at this point. More interferance in the forecast isn't needed.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I have to say, I do agree with one aspect of what is being proposed- namely, the cutting down on forecasters subjectively telling us what weather is 'good' or 'bad' and letting the public decide for themselves what their opinions are.

For instance, "hopefully the cold bright weather will only be brief, and when the dull drizzly south-westerlies win, at least it will be mild", "the weather will improve as we lose the sunshine and the showers, and it quietens down with some drizzle for North East England". That sort of thing has always annoyed me, although interestingly, its incidence on the BBC has always been well below ITV yet seems to have increased over the past 5 years.

I remember another example of 'spin' in July 2002 when forecasters (even on the BBC) referred to a prediction of sunshine and showers with "the rain will get heavier with a risk of thunder and it will be miserable", and everyone thought it would be a washout. They were then surprised when, in spite of the showers, many places had their sunniest spell of the month, yet actually, what the BBC predicted was broadly correct!

I'm not in favour of cutting-out the other aspects of forecasting 'spin' though. Short of telling people what weather they should and shouldn't want, forecasters should have every right to show individuality and spice up their forecasts IMO. And there's an element of hypocrisy in there- if they don't want the forecasters introducing 'spin', why encourage them to focus on the 'bright side'? Isn't that positive spin, and won't that be just as misleading as negative spin? You have to draw a line somewhere in between, and for the most part, the forecasters should be capable of judging that for themselves.

[J10]

What i would really, really, really like to see from the beeb is a very detailed 5 day forecast with all the above ( and yes it could still be good using the new style graphics if it was done wright)

recorded every morning and put on both the internet and digital tv so the people who do want a more detailed forecast can have access to one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to only partially quote Chris, but I totally agree with the above, this should be available on the internet, and interactive sources, and also there should be at least 1 five minute forecast every day, even if it's on BBC4.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I also think that it would be a good idea, shame it almost certainly won't be considered.

[Microburst]

I also think that it would be a good idea, shame it almost certainly won't be considered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I have mentioned before, in an ideal BBC world, weather pres would love to do a daily five minute forecast but there is not the time permitted to do it. Literally!

Without going into the rights and wrongs of programme trailers and the alloted time given over to them again, weather buffs will have to survive with the 2 - 3 minute bulletins in the longer term. Sorry, but there are absolutely no plans to make longer radio and tv forecasts.

MB

PS I will pass on the internet request for a longer detailed forecast to the weather team.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Microburst

[shuggee]

I find that hard to understand MB. With BBC3 and BBC4 barely watched and full of repeats or minority programming, there simply must be air time available?

[Terminal Moraine]

If it's true that the met' office have issued a memo to forecasters to put a more positive spin on 'bad' weather then it's one more unacceptable step into the world of the nanny state.

A state where people must be protected at all costs from negativity, the unpalatable, the unpleasant or anything else which isn't cosy, comfy and smiley.

Are we all such delicate little flowers that we will plunge into depression or develop suicidal tendencies if a forecaster tells us it will be a cold and miserable day with heavy rain?

Will we need therapy if told there will be a severe gale or can it be avoided by saying it will be rather windy.

All I ask of the weather forecast is the undiluted, unadulterated facts.

I can take the news whether it's benign or life threatening in the same way that I can take being told that I've failed at something rather than having experiened a 'deferred success'.

The cosy, warm, fuzzy land of positive spin is an anathema to me; pass me the bag Mrs T, I think I'm about to retch again

T.M

[chris55]

Surely there is enough justification for the licence fee holders who do want detailed weather to have access to a decent forecast. The net or bbci are two very usefull means to access it from and would suite me. However i think there are enough people out ther who would like to see this on normal TV, like an 11 oclock weather view with more focus on the UK.

There are plenty of target audience programs out there that only cater for a small minority of the paying public but are most certainly justified. a detailed weather slot would be similar.

(just to moan on a bit more) The 2000 weather relaunch was really the pinacle of BBC forecasting. After this relaunch was there any complaints!! probally not. And during the 5 years it was used it served the british public in general very well but also gave a little more to the weather enthusiasts.

When they relaunched again in may they changed things for the benefit of the people who weren't really interested in weather in first place ie- people who just want a sunny rainy forecast, by doing this your really just taking away from the people who are interested, if you get me.

Any way it's here to stay now and thats it I guess.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I'm still yet to find a post by Terminal Moraine about the BBC forecasts that I haven't agreed 100% with.

[crimsone]

Does this mean that they'll descibe a cold front as "a patch of warm air", completely ignoring the patch of warm air below it?

I watch the weather for the weather. I don't want to have to sit there interpreting what they are saying and reading between the lines!

Seriously though, what if they all start acctually believing what they say?

[J10]

I thought the new direction from the met Office was to give clearer forecasts and take away spin, and to give facts as opposed to opinion. Surely this is to be welcomed.

[Microburst]

I find that hard to understand MB.  With BBC3 and BBC4 barely watched and full of repeats or minority programming, there simply must be air time available?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If only the BBC was that simple Shuggee

[Microburst]

If it's true that the met' office have issued a memo to forecasters to put a more positive spin on 'bad' weather then it's one more unacceptable step into the world of the nanny state.

A state where people must be protected at all costs from negativity, the unpalatable, the unpleasant or anything else which isn't cosy, comfy and smiley.

Are we all such delicate little flowers that we will plunge into depression or develop suicidal tendencies if a forecaster tells us it will be a cold and miserable day with heavy rain?

Will we need therapy if told there will be a severe gale or can it be avoided by saying it will be rather windy.

All I ask of the weather forecast is the undiluted, unadulterated facts.

I can take the news whether it's benign or life threatening in the same way that I can take being told that I've failed at something rather than having experiened a 'deferred success'.

The cosy, warm, fuzzy land of positive spin is an anathema to me; pass me the bag Mrs T, I think I'm about to retch again

T.M

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Majorities not minorities TM and why not at the same time try to cater for all! ... and then the BBC still gets accused of getting it wrong!

[Thundery wintry showers]

I suppose it's going to depend on how it is implemented and how strict the new 'rules' are, and as yet we don't know.

If it's going to be quite extreme, and result in forecasters having no individuality, and/or result in the weather having positive spin applied all the time, then I will have my doubts.

On the other hand, if it's basically what JACKONE posted, then I will be all for it.

[Terminal Moraine]

Facts will certainly be welcomed.

My concern lies with the suggestion that any sort of spin will be applied to the facts be it negative or positive; once spin is applied, the facts become distorted and distorted facts are no longer facts but are subjective interpretation.

I understand, for instance, that in future a showery day will be described as 'mainly dry'. This is acceptable if only a couple of light showers are expected but not so if there is a shower every hour or so;

will there be a differentiation?

On the positive side, if there is to be no subjectivity, we will at least be spared 'at least it will be mild' during the winter.

I will wait and see before passing further comment.

T.M

[Mr Sleet]

I have been a big critic of these new BBC forecasts since they came out in May.

Now with the advent of proper thunderstorm lightning, wind directions and force, synoptic charts more frequently, and a graphic for fog, I have to say that I think overall the forecast is better now than what went before .Addressing these glaring negatives alllows one to appreciate the positives e.g. on saturday I was expecting rain to Reach Thame at 3:30 pm , sure enough it did, almost on thE dot so I was able to plan my fishing trip around it. Sure we could do with more time but oh well.

Well done to all on this forum for lobbying and well done to Microburst for your assistance.Thanks.

[Microburst]

I have been a big critic of these new BBC forecasts since they came out in May.

Now with the advent of proper thunderstorm lightning, wind directions and force, synoptic charts more frequently, and a graphic for fog, I have to say that I think overall the forecast is better now than what went before .Addressing these glaring negatives alllows one to appreciate the positives e.g. on saturday I was expecting rain to Reach Thame at 3:30 pm , sure enough it did, almost on thE dot so I was able to plan my fishing trip around it. Sure we could do with more time but oh well.

Well done to all on this forum for lobbying and well done to Microburst for your assistance.Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problems Mr. S - glad to have been able to assist 'on the inside'!! B)

MB