BBC Weather Forecasts and Graphics Discussion

[Andy Bown]

Not about the graphics but copied and pasted this evening from the BBC Weather site. Note a new phrase for tonight, Sunday and Monday Exposure to what ? ...

...Friday night

A little drizzle near windward coasts and hills otherwise a dry night, a few clear spells in the north and later in the south, otherwise mostly cloudy. Breezy with exposure.

Saturday

Wales and southern England becoming sunny and quite warm, longer sunny periods developing later in the north, but northeast England and eastern Scotland likely to stay cloudy.

Sunday

A few sunny intervals in places but rather cloudy. In the southwest some showers, locally heavy. Other western and some central parts may have showers later. Breezy with exposure.

Monday

Rain at times across southwestern areas of the UK, the north, east and some central areas mainly dry with perhaps a few brighter spells. Breezy with exposure.

[shuggee]

Well, our earlier questions are beginning to be answered - and it isn't looking terribly good.

Today and tomorrow is the first proper borderline wintry event in Scotland. Snow above 600m; so what do the BBC graphics show? Rain. Yes, a comment from the forecaster - but no supporting graphic.

Now, since the geography of the UK doesn't change much day-to-day, how hard can it be to 'ring fence' the mountains over certain heights - and then when ppn falls in these areas, show the correct graphic?

Only one more test now - and that's mild wet weather moving into cold air and turning to snow either on its leading or trailing edge. I'm not holding my breath however.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I expect that when widespread snow events occur, they will do a poor job at first, then a flood of viewer complaints will come in, and then they will sort it out so that it is at a reasonable standard.

At least, that seems to have been the way of things so far. I still preferred the old graphics system to what they have now for national forecasts, but they are clearly working in the direction of making the current system better than the old one (which IMO they have already achieved on the regional forecasts)- but generally after mass criticism from viewers.

[Richard Lake]

shuggee, i watched a forecast yesterday from the beeb, you couldnt make out the snowfall over scotland, but if you looked across towards norway you certainly couldn't miss it!

Edited October 22, 2005 by rikki

[shuggee]

Yes - the snow in Norway is now showing up - but obviously, that is not a marginal event. The discussions on here have focussed on how the beeb will handle marginal set-ups such as hill-only snow and cold air/mild air battles. Especially since these are much more likely than anything else in the modern winter...

[Microburst]

Well, our earlier questions are beginning to be answered - and it isn't looking terribly good.

Today and tomorrow is the first proper borderline wintry event in Scotland.  Snow above 600m; so what do the BBC graphics show?  Rain.  Yes, a comment from the forecaster - but no supporting graphic.

Now, since the geography of the UK doesn't change much day-to-day, how hard can it be to 'ring fence' the mountains over certain heights - and then when ppn falls in these areas, show the correct graphic?

Only one more test now - and that's mild wet weather moving into cold air and turning to snow either on its leading or trailing edge.  I'm not holding my breath however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I can assist you Shuggee. The key word in the opening paragraph was 'boderline'. This is why no snow symbol was used.

In your second paragraph 'ring fence' This is not possible to do on the national maps. Maybe your local BBC tv weather will be able to do this is more detail on a local map.

Your third paragraph suggests there is no symbol for sleet?

Can I reassure all of you worried and losing sleep over how the new weather symbols will represent sleet and snow. When sleet is in the forecast of an appreciable level then the rain graphics with snow blobs falling as well will be used. With continous snow there are 2 sizes of blob, small for snow not amounting to significance and larger blobs for accumulation.

Be patient folks I am sure this winter will provide more than enough use for the animations.

MB

[Microburst]

I expect that when widespread snow events occur, they will do a poor job at first, then a flood of viewer complaints will come in, and then they will sort it out so that it is at a reasonable standard.

At least, that seems to have been the way of things so far.  I still preferred the old graphics system to what they have now for national forecasts, but they are clearly working in the direction of making the current system better than the old one (which IMO they have already achieved on the regional forecasts)- but generally after mass criticism from viewers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cor blimey I thought we had peaked with the negativity on this subject.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Whatever the merits and disadvantages of the new forecast system, I have to say that I am not impressed with the attitude of the BBC at all (this includes articles elsewhere). It seems to encompass an unwillingness to admit to making any mistakes, trying to 'educate' the general public that the changes are positive and telling them to go with the flow, trying to manipulate data and statistics to back up their assertions, and being incredibly dismissive of anyone who voices anything less than full satisfaction.

The replies people get tend to be subtly (and confusingly) worded ('disenfranchised', anyone?) avoiding addressing some of the key points people make, and making out that everything is being improved, based on the reasoning that it is being improved and therefore it is being improved- very much in the style of politicians in a typical political debate! People who claim otherwise aren't qualified to say so, because either they are deeply interested in the weather and therefore aren't represenative of the majority view, or they have insufficient knowledge of weather and forecasting to know. I even saw a suggestion elsewhere that the BBC has tried to move away from an approach of trying to cater for everyone, and that this will therefore make forecasts cater better for everyone (and again this was very subtly worded with much positive 'spin' imposed)

It may well be being improved, but I don't like the condenscending and 'politicians response' type attitude.

[Summer of 76]

Can I ask MB a question.

When we see the rainfall animation say at 10.35 do we see real rainfall radar say up to 9pm or is everything a computer generation based on earlier models.

I only ask as the other evening when rain was moving up from France it didn't seem to be the same as the online radar, it was further east.

Thanks

[Veritas]

I even saw a suggestion elsewhere that the BBC has tried to move away from an approach of trying to cater for everyone, and that this will therefore make forecasts cater better for everyone (and again this was very subtly worded with much positive 'spin' imposed)

I think you must be referring to their move away from "one size fits all", which seems sensible to me. They've always recognised that the Countryfile forecasts attracts people with meteorological knowledge - now they're trying (to use the marketing jargon!) to segment and target the audience better the rest of the time!

[Somerset Squall]

I'd just like to say that I agree with you entirely there TWS.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I think you must be referring to their move away from "one size fits all", which seems sensible to me. They've always recognised that the Countryfile forecasts attracts people with meteorological knowledge - now they're trying (to use the marketing jargon!) to segment and target the audience better the rest of the time!

Something just doesn't add up to me here:

"One size fits all" indicates "catering for everyone". The assertion seems to be that the previous approach, labelled "one size fits all", catered for the knowledgeable with an interest in the weather, at the expense of those who had no interest in the weather.

In that case, how was it "one size fits all" if it was supposedly not "fitting all"?

This concept of "segmenting and targetting the audience better", which I have seen suggested by the BBC in different areas, sounds incredibly vague and entrenched in positive 'spin'. The only explanation of this I have seen is the idea of targeting the varying 'expected' wants of people at different times of day. There are points for and against this, it's good to make sectors of the audience feel they are being specifically catered for, but there's a big tradeoff if you end up alienating people who don't fit in with the 'expectations'.

Instead of trying to target sections of an audience at the expense of alienating other sections, what about the idea of trying to have "one size" actually "fit all" by trying to cater for people of all backgrounds, providing information for people with interest in the weather and making it easier to understand/more accessible for people with no interest? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[J10]

Targeting different forecasts at different people could be a good idea, if done correctly, with the emphasis on could.

[Microburst]

Can I ask MB a question.

When we see the rainfall animation say at 10.35 do we see real rainfall radar say up to 9pm or is everything a computer generation based on earlier models.

I only ask as the other evening when rain was moving up from France it didn't seem to be the same as the online radar, it was further east.

Thanks

Hi Chris,

Sorry for the delay in replying... a few days off! <_< It is a mix of both I am told and the images are digitally enhanced for bolder television definition which is why they may appear slightly different from the online images.

MB

Whatever the merits and disadvantages of the new forecast system, I have to say that I am not impressed with the attitude of the BBC at all (this includes articles elsewhere). It seems to encompass an unwillingness to admit to making any mistakes, trying to 'educate' the general public that the changes are positive and telling them to go with the flow, trying to manipulate data and statistics to back up their assertions, and being incredibly dismissive of anyone who voices anything less than full satisfaction.

The replies people get tend to be subtly (and confusingly) worded ('disenfranchised', anyone?) avoiding addressing some of the key points people make, and making out that everything is being improved, based on the reasoning that it is being improved and therefore it is being improved- very much in the style of politicians in a typical political debate! People who claim otherwise aren't qualified to say so, because either they are deeply interested in the weather and therefore aren't represenative of the majority view, or they have insufficient knowledge of weather and forecasting to know. I even saw a suggestion elsewhere that the BBC has tried to move away from an approach of trying to cater for everyone, and that this will therefore make forecasts cater better for everyone (and again this was very subtly worded with much positive 'spin' imposed)

It may well be being improved, but I don't like the condenscending and 'politicians response' type attitude.

Of course you are entitled to your own opinion and interpretation of how the BBC appears to you!

[Cloudburst]

Well when used correctly (Rob McElwee Forecasts) i think the graphics are alot better than th eold ones, such as nice smooth frontal movements etc, when they are used properly they allow you to understand it better, backed up with a good explaination of whats going on. I think that some of the forecasters rely on the graphics to tell the story, whereas Rob explains in detail and talks through - Hes (in my opinion) the best forecaster on the BBC. <_<

[Osbourne One-Nil]

I think whoever it was presenting the regional forecast this morning needs to remember that she's presenting the North-East and Cumbria forecast, and therefore not stand in front of Cumbria for the whole forecast.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Yes, I agree with the above posts- some very good points.

[Andy Bown]

Having disappeared a few weeks ago (and been replaced by a smoother moving graphic) I noticed that the 'jumping' rainband had returned on today's 08.50 Breakfast forecast .

The band jumped from Ireland to East Wales leaving West Wales (the most rain prone region) without rain shown moving over it !

[Great Plum]

I noticed that as well Andy...

Anyone see the big wind arrows at lunchtime?

[Microburst]

I noticed that as well Andy...

Anyone see the big wind arrows at lunchtime?

Big wind arrows, jumping rain bands whatever next Minor modifications and experimental new features are being played with all the time at the moment with a view to making some future on-screen enhancements soon.

MB

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Hahahahaha - we used to get magnetic symbols falling off a map, and now you get complaints that the computer animation isn't quite as smooth as it could be.

Do you ever wonder why you bother?!!

[johnholmes]

to Micro

'Do you ever wonder why you bother?!!'

sums up some of the posts on here!

Most of us are quite pleased with much of what is now done. Sure there is room for improvement with some graphics, but it certainly is one heck of a sight better than it was at the beginning. Just a shame that more consultation with people who care did not happen before you went live.

regards

John

I'm sure that Ian, Bill, John and most of the others would have enjoyed 'playing' with these new graphics.

I think Ian swore more about the then graphics than anything else if you chatted to him about doing TV forecasts!

j

[A Gower Guy]

Overall I like the 16-5-05 onwards graphics, as previously said by some other members, the forecasts are generally more accurate.

The changes over the last few weeks have increased the pleasure of watching the forecast, with the weather warning caption in the bottom right and zooming into the affected area(s), the radar style movement of the rain across the country, and the lightning effects on thundery showers.

The wind arrows for me move to fast (the paper aeroplane looking ones), if they moved at a steadier speed like the old ones or at speeds similar to strength, fast when windy slow when a little breezy, then that would benefit the forecasts.

Also there does need to be more showing of the temperature colour map or more temperature squares on the map. The one good thing with the temperatures with this system is the squares colour represents the temperature better than the 0, 10, 25 did.

[Cloudburst]

I actually like the new graphics and think that thye are a huge improvement on te previous ones, but the clours in the radar could be better, i.e more of them.

[Kent Snow]

Quite like the new wind graphic used on this evening BBC1 forecast depicting the strong winds in the NW of Britain.