The Hadron collider

[Coast]

Its still the sum result of 50 million people contributing to one cost. So its still a heck of a lot of money. And btw; that amount of millions on peanuts is certainly not going to the same manufacturer.

So do you have the same feelings about space exploration? Certainly far more costly over the years and doesn't directly save lives when another rocket is launched, but you are bound to be using some form of spin off technology at this moment and some of it has changed the world we live in.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Coast

[PersianPaladin]

So do you have the same feelings about space exploration? Certainly far more costly over the years and doesn't directly save lives when another rocket is launched, but you are bound to be using some form of spin off technology at this moment and some of it has changed the world we live in.

True...radar was adopted after usage in WW2 towards weather forecasting and the WWW also had selective military use am I right?

The whole point is that not every spending on so-called scientific endeavours is neccessarily worth it.

[Red Raven]

True...radar was adopted after usage in WW2 towards weather forecasting and the WWW also had selective military use am I right?

The whole point is that not every spending on so-called scientific endeavours is neccessarily worth it.

It's an experiment. The purpose of an experiment is to verify theory. If the theory verifies then those theories become the rules and guides for developing new technologies. If it doesn't verify then a new theory gets developed.

In this experiment, which is one that is attempting to verify the building blocks of the universe, the out come is likely to have untold and countless benefits to human kind. The questions it asks are not just technological ones but also fundamental philosophical ones, the outcome of that is immeasurable and profound.

What more do you want for a paltry 5 billion? :lol:

[PersianPaladin]

It's an experiment. The purpose of an experiment is to verify theory. If the theory verifies then those theories become the rules and guides for developing new technologies. If it doesn't verify then a new theory gets developed.

In this experiment, which is one that is attempting to verify the building blocks of the universe, the out come is likely to have untold and countless benefits to human kind. The questions it asks are not just technological ones but also fundamental philosophical ones, the outcome of that is immeasurable and profound.

What more do you want for a paltry 5 billion? :lol:

Absolute nonesense.

We here in the west are pampered spoilt and decadent as it is and living long lives while the majority of the world have to starve or sell us food.

Countless benefits? Heh....as long as it doesn't involve interfering with the human body. I'm fine with it, mostly. But indeed...it is very curious how politics can prevent projects like this (for example) from ever getting off the ground?

Edited September 10, 2008 by PersianPaladin

[Red Raven]

Absolute nonesense.

We here in the west are pampered spoilt and decadent as it is and living long lives while the majority of the world have to starve or sell us food.

Countless benefits? Heh....as long as it doesn't involve interfering with the human body. I'm fine with it, mostly. But indeed...it is very curious how politics can prevent projects like this (for example) from ever getting off the ground?

So you are happy remaining ignorant and as Stephen Hawking's put it - stagnating. One thing for sure stagnation makes your feet rot off. :lol:

[Andy Bown]

I haven't been following this thread, but heard plenty about the experiment on the radio while driving today. It reminds me of the book 'Prey' by Michael Crichton. Let's hope the outcome isn't the same for those involved :wacko: !

[0000]

I'm not up on this subject despite watching several documentries about it,is there really any danger involved?

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

I'm not up on this subject despite watching several documentries about it,is there really any danger involved?

No. Basically any micro black holes that are created will dissappear within billionths of a second. Also, collisions of similar energies occur every day on the edge of out atmosphere, with no discernable consequences.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7598996.stm

[0000]

No. Basically any micro black holes that are created will dissappear within billionths of a second. Also, collisions of similar energies occur every day on the edge of out atmosphere, with no discernable consequences.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7598996.stm

Thanks RRR interesting stuff.

[A.J]

No. Basically any micro black holes that are created will dissappear within billionths of a second. Also, collisions of similar energies occur every day on the edge of out atmosphere, with no discernable consequences.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7598996.stm

Relaint of course of hawking radiation theory being correct, other theoretical dangers include the creation of 'strangelets' (particles containing 'strange quarks') an ice-9 transition of negatively charged strangelets....quantum vacuum release, and so on...All possible theoretical, not proven!

The LHC itself is just a stepping stone to a new generation of super-acclerators, due to be constructed in the early 2020's...

[0000]

Relaint of course of hawking radiation theory being correct, other theoretical dangers include the creation of 'strangelets' (particles containing 'strange quarks') an ice-9 transition of negatively charged strangelets....quantum vacuum release, and so on...All possible theoretical, not proven!

The LHC itself is just a stepping stone to a new generation of super-acclerators, due to be constructed in the early 2020's...

If hawking theory is wrong how long do we have to stock up on bottled water and beans lol?

[PersianPaladin]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26641652/

Oh dear.

[SP1986]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26641652/

Oh dear.

Oh dear, and that reflects the damage the press do

As for the experiment, I think its very worthwhile, and if we find something out it could excel us into a very very good position whereby every problem on the planet could be tackled. Until of course I becomes a political agenda. Lets hope politics stays out of these findings (if there are any)

[The watcher]

I actually find most peoples reactions out of order, mostly devout Christians have started these rumours, so afraid that their way of living and thinking will be proven wrong and christianity will become non-existent....(in other words they will lose out financially).

Ive seen alot of people slagging these scientists off too, mostly on American sites. It makes me laugh, everything we use in our day to day lives was at one point an experiment, the tv, radio, microwave, washing machine, planes, cars, everything electrical. How can people have so much disrespect and negativety for the very things that make our world the way it is today? I actually seen one guy calling them Nerds who've no life and haven't seen a woman naked, saying they have no family, no woman in their life to lose......its ridiculous.

What is the experiment for? Well obviously its going to answer questions to the birth of the universe, we will find new kinds of material and matter, even ones that have not been seen since the birth of the universe. I also reckon other things will arise from this....new ways of travel, new energy production, new natural raw materials. Its not only worth the £5billion, its an amazing spectacle and the dawn of a new era. If people think its a waste of money think again....imagine how much it cost America to invade Iraq, to build a nuclear bomb, to pay goverment wages, to bail certain companies out of bankruptcy.........£5billion is just a needle in a world sized haystack.

Not the end of the world, but a new beginning.....who knows, maybe this New World predicted by Nostradamus and Mayens is actually true....the beginning of a very large change to humankind.

[SP1986]

I actually find most peoples reactions out of order, mostly devout Christians have started these rumours, so afraid that their way of living and thinking will be proven wrong and christianity will become non-existent....(in other words they will lose out financially).

Ive seen alot of people slagging these scientists off too, mostly on American sites. It makes me laugh, everything we use in our day to day lives was at one point an experiment, the tv, radio, microwave, washing machine, planes, cars, everything electrical. How can people have so much disrespect and negativety for the very things that make our world the way it is today? I actually seen one guy calling them Nerds who've no life and haven't seen a woman naked, saying they have no family, no woman in their life to lose......its ridiculous.

What is the experiment for? Well obviously its going to answer questions to the birth of the universe, we will find new kinds of material and matter, even ones that have not been seen since the birth of the universe. I also reckon other things will arise from this....new ways of travel, new energy production, new natural raw materials. Its not only worth the £5billion, its an amazing spectacle and the dawn of a new era. If people think its a waste of money think again....imagine how much it cost America to invade Iraq, to build a nuclear bomb, to pay goverment wages, to bail certain companies out of bankruptcy.........£5billion is just a needle in a world sized haystack.

Not the end of the world, but a new beginning.....who knows, maybe this New World predicted by Nostradamus and Mayens is actually true....the beginning of a very large change to humankind.

Hear hear fantastic post and one I fully agree with. Even if the experiment is not a success as it was intended to be, we'll gather alot of useful data which could help progress or further the accuracy of the experiment in the future.

[PersianPaladin]

I actually find most peoples reactions out of order, mostly devout Christians have started these rumours, so afraid that their way of living and thinking will be proven wrong and christianity will become non-existent....(in other words they will lose out financially).

Ive seen alot of people slagging these scientists off too, mostly on American sites. It makes me laugh, everything we use in our day to day lives was at one point an experiment, the tv, radio, microwave, washing machine, planes, cars, everything electrical. How can people have so much disrespect and negativety for the very things that make our world the way it is today? I actually seen one guy calling them Nerds who've no life and haven't seen a woman naked, saying they have no family, no woman in their life to lose......its ridiculous.

What is the experiment for? Well obviously its going to answer questions to the birth of the universe, we will find new kinds of material and matter, even ones that have not been seen since the birth of the universe. I also reckon other things will arise from this....new ways of travel, new energy production, new natural raw materials. Its not only worth the £5billion, its an amazing spectacle and the dawn of a new era. If people think its a waste of money think again....imagine how much it cost America to invade Iraq, to build a nuclear bomb, to pay goverment wages, to bail certain companies out of bankruptcy.........£5billion is just a needle in a world sized haystack.

Not the end of the world, but a new beginning.....who knows, maybe this New World predicted by Nostradamus and Mayens is actually true....the beginning of a very large change to humankind.

I'm not 'against' this experiment per se.....but tbh, it is already using a considerable amount of power to activate which is hardly 'green' energy.

Way I see it as long as it doesn't interfere with the natural environment or the human body; I'm usually fine with it. A lot of our current technology has come at considerable harm to our environments....and hence we need to always evaluate this 'technological research no matter what' attitude. Examples being Monsanto and their meddling with genetic modification.

[The watcher]

I'm not 'against' this experiment per se.....but tbh, it is already using a considerable amount of power to activate which is hardly 'green' energy.

Way I see it as long as it doesn't interfere with the natural environment or the human body; I'm usually fine with it. A lot of our current technology has come at considerable harm to our environments....and hence we need to always evaluate this 'technological research no matter what' attitude. Examples being Monsanto and their meddling with genetic modification.

I see your point PP, I don't like anything that creates havoc amongst our Natural planet and our humanlife either. It may take large amounts of energy to run this project, but with the data collected, the new atoms that will be created and of course with the best minds in the business operating it I think a new energy source will be created from this, something cleaner, recyclable and safe. Imagine the energys produced by a big bang and being able to harness this energy safely. Its all for a better cause, and a cause I think that will make the moon landing seem futile in comparison. Everything we know as it is will change, its only a matter of time. Space travel will change, Energy sources will change, Theories will change (although be it to more theories), introduction of new materials that we have never seen before......we will all look back (just as Im sure people did during early space exploration days) and wonder why we got so uptight over this. I think you should also know that CERN are donating money to charitys with publicity over the LHC.

Honestly with the money that already goes to poor countries and the donations already sent not much impact has been made, but this is not the fault of not giving enough, this is usually the cause of those running the country in question, for instance African countries as we have seen recently are run by a greedy, selfish bunch of tossups and THEY are the cause of their own countries problems.

[NL]

I think they said that it costs eveyone in the world 50p per year to construct/run the collider

and hoping that it would lead to 'cleaning' up nuclear waste and countless other benefits,

it as already benefited millions as the world wide web was 'born' because of the collider.

[PersianPaladin]

I think they said that it costs eveyone in the world 50p per year to construct/run the collider

and hoping that it would lead to 'cleaning' up nuclear waste and countless other benefits,

it as already benefited millions as the world wide web was 'born' because of the collider.

But money is not an entity really....it is a product of value that is ultimately drawn from the natural resources.

We must always remember that.

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26641652/

Oh dear.

Crikey, thats pretty awful.

But if you thought so strongly that the world was going to end in a big bang, wouldnt you just wait on the off chance the planet isnt destroyed?

Edited September 11, 2008 by RAIN RAIN RAIN

[J07]

I see your point PP, I don't like anything that creates havoc amongst our Natural planet and our humanlife either. It may take large amounts of energy to run this project, but with the data collected, the new atoms that will be created and of course with the best minds in the business operating it I think a new energy source will be created from this, something cleaner, recyclable and safe. Imagine the energys produced by a big bang and being able to harness this energy safely. Its all for a better cause, and a cause I think that will make the moon landing seem futile in comparison. Everything we know as it is will change, its only a matter of time. Space travel will change, Energy sources will change, Theories will change (although be it to more theories), introduction of new materials that we have never seen before......we will all look back (just as Im sure people did during early space exploration days) and wonder why we got so uptight over this. I think you should also know that CERN are donating money to charitys with publicity over the LHC.

Honestly with the money that already goes to poor countries and the donations already sent not much impact has been made, but this is not the fault of not giving enough, this is usually the cause of those running the country in question, for instance African countries as we have seen recently are run by a greedy, selfish bunch of tossups and THEY are the cause of their own countries problems.

They will not be creating any new atoms.

The idea is to collide particles at very high energies to create new particles. A large number of these will be just referred to as "resonances". They will exist meaningfully only in the data collected, as they will likely only exist for something like 10^-20 seconds (if I remember correctly). These particles are highly unstable and just decay into bog standard varieties very quickly. There are various conservation laws which allow the products of the collisions to be predicted quite accurately....within the standard model anyway.

There are stable exotic particles out there if the new theories are correct. Whether they can be found....I am not sure. Eventually all this stuff gets a bit garbled in your head, especially when the figures are meaningless to us (1Gev, for example) in everyday life. I think this new collider does not go to high enough energies to find many of the postulated particles. Supernovae and natural annihilations remain the ultimate particle accelerators....but of course we can't control them.

I believe the idea of getting new, clean energy from this new experiment is quite fantastical. If they find the Higgs Boson that would be nice, but there's a few other Bosons out there that we've known about for a long time and they don't lead to energy sources (a Boson is just a force-carrier).

I personally think that finding a Higgsino would be more exciting. Two birds with one stone, so to speak.

[SP1986]

I believe the idea of getting new, clean energy from this new experiment is quite fantastical. If they find the Higgs Boson that would be nice, but there's a few other Bosons out there that we've known about for a long time and they don't lead to energy sources (a Boson is just a force-carrier).

I personally think that finding a Higgsino would be more exciting. Two birds with one stone, so to speak.

I agree that new energy is unlikely to be found from this, however perhaps from the experiments even if not particularly conclusive, they may find more effective ways of harnessing old energies such as Nuclear and possibly reducing the affects of waste, or perhaps making safer, that would be a bonus for the human race and for the planet in general. The big problem is whatever is found out is going to end up in the hands of governments, and that's just not an option if we find something we could potentially progress with.

[stewfox]

True...radar was adopted after usage in WW2 towards weather forecasting and the WWW also had selective military use am I right?

The whole point is that not every spending on so-called scientific endeavours is neccessarily worth it.

Nor is spending money on the Opera (I assume we do as it give people pleasure ?)

Whats your point ?

There maybe no spin offs , we might just find out a bit more about where we came from, they can have my 50p

[Red Raven]

Nor is spending money on the Opera (I assume we do as it give people pleasure ?)

Whats your point ?

There maybe no spin offs , we might just find out a bit more about where we came from, they can have my 50p

And for what its worth mine too. :lol:

[PersianPaladin]

http://gist.github.com/9810

Lol.